Is There Growing Confusion over Church Teaching?

Crisis Magazine ^ | July 16, 2014 | Dr. William Oddie

[CynicalBear]

>>“Sadly certain anti-Catholic bigots like to ask:<<

That’s from post 26. That isn’t a disparaging remark?

[metmom]

Post 26 is not mine.

He didn't say it was.

He merely pointed out where the bashing moved in and since it was before the caucus label was removed because it is WHY the caucus label was removed, the bashers moved in before any Protestants showed up.

[verga]

Caucus posters must never, ever use the caucus label as cover to attack non-members or the beliefs of non-members.

I didn't notice it was a Caucus thread.

[metmom]

In some people’s book, I guess not.

[CynicalBear]

>>The argument that I’ve heard is that if you believe in *free will* then it puts salvation in the works category, IOW, you have to do something to earn it.<<

That’s another aspect of it absolutely! Scripture teaches that we can’t even come to God without Him calling and working in us. That gives no room for man to boast or take credit.

[verga]

That’s from post 26. That isn’t a disparaging remark?

Actually it is a factual statement. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

[CynicalBear]

Well done!!! I have for many years now been convinced that anything the smacks of giving credit to sinful man has something inherently wrong with it.

[CynicalBear]

First sentence post 30.

[BlueDragon]

"All believe in free will, but what "free" really means is subject to interpretation. Can man believe on the Lord Jesus without God motivating and enabling Him?" ...

"...And thus the fervent theological controversy regarding divine grace that arose between the Dominicans and the Jesuits towards the close of the sixteenth century. And despite the promotion about RC unity and the magisterium settling disputes, this was not settled..."

Already There Casting Crowns

[defconw]

You called me out on 26. If you have a problem 30 then you have a problem with 30. I stand by it. I merely wanted to know why the Caucus was dropped. I have been informed. I am fine with it.

[daniel1212]

whatever disagreement it is not about the very existence of free will

But which is why i referred to a theological definitions of free will. I know of neither Calvinists of Arminians who deny men are free to make choices, but are only capable of making choices according to their nature, and left to that alone they will not come of Christ, thus "no man can come to Me unless the Father draw Him," (Jn. 6:44; cf. 12:32) and who opens hearts, (Acts 16:14), grants repentance, (Acts 11:18) and gives faith. (Eph. 2:8,9)

Whether the lost are granted salvific grace and whether it can be resisted is the debate, due to the strength of support on both sides.

[daniel1212]

Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?

Do you mean what God allows man to do in His omniscience, or even ordains them as in the case of Judas, but in which one still chooses to do so (mystery) and works out for God, or that the decisions of men to elect grossly immoral men are led by the Spirit in obeying the Word of God, and are infallible?

And which thus are a necessary attribute of the one true church?

And while we are at it, what is your basis for your full assurance that Rome is the one true church (the weight of evidence, Scripture, etc.)?

[defconw]

It’s time for me to go home. I will catch up with this later.

[daniel1212]

Just out of curiosity was it a request to have the Caucus label removed? I mean we were having a nice conversation then I see the bashers moving in. Just curious. Because I like to have a non-hate filled conversation with fellow Catholics from time to time.

It was because (again) an RC initiated an attack on "anti-Catholic bigots." As the RM pointed to post #26.

Note however, that "anti-Catholic bigots" can refer to those who challenge the elitist presumptions of Rome and her defenders, who argue that they are right because their church is right, if she does say so herself.

Yet we have also been told be an omniscient RC that there has never been a bit of anti-Protestant bigotry on FR.

[NYer]

[daniel1212]

Which is the often seen victim-entitlement reaction of RCs, whom presume they can promote an elitist autocratic entity, and relegate those who oppose it to being “bigots, and whine when not given special treatment/exceptions.

[defconw]

Apparently now we are the elitist. WOW!

[CynicalBear]

One need only peruse the religion threads and see the number of Catholic threads to understand how welcome Catholics are here.

[defconw]

So are you saying you don’t want Catholics to respond to any thing that is posted? Is that what you are saying?

[Salvation]

Could it be that there are more Catholics? In the USA? In the world?