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To: metmom

Christ and Paul commend celibacy, and recommend it over marriage for those who can accept it. Christ’s Church commends it, and mandates it for priests in the Roman Rite. Jesus also commands us to “listen to the church,” lest we be “treated as pagans or tax collectors.”

Catholics take Jesus’ command seriously and obey His Church. How is this contrary to Scripture?

Yet your position represents purely worldly wisdom. You oppose priestly celibacy, knowing that Christ recommends it over marriage. On what basis?

Where in the Bible does it say that all doctrine is contained in the Bible? It doesn’t. That’s a tradition of men. Yet you adhere to this man-made tradition, and typically ignore Christ’s command to “listen to the Church,” the “pillar and foundation of truth,” as recorded in the Bible.


322 posted on 07/17/2014 5:59:02 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Jesus also commands us to “listen to the church,” lest we be “treated as pagans or tax collectors.”

That verse is constantly being taken out of context to justify the absolute authority Catholicism claims over not only it's members, but everyone else on the planet as well.

That verse is not blanket authority to any one church or denomination to give them license to make up rules and then demand that everyone fall in line under the threats of damnation and the anathemas like those found in the canon from the Council of Trent.

Where would Catholicism be without cherry picking Scripture?

In context....

Matthew 18:15-20 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

IOW, relate to him as you would someone who is unsaved. Don't consider him a brother.

That doesn't mean damn them by pronouncing anathemas against them and retaining their sins.

It doesn't mean ostracizing him. We are in the world and to associate with those of the world to win them to Christ. We are to appeal to them to be reconciled to God, whatever it means for them.

Church isn't a country club and too many church people need to lose the us vs them mentality and looking down their noses at the *outsiders*.

323 posted on 07/17/2014 6:46:29 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Yet your position represents purely worldly wisdom. You oppose priestly celibacy, knowing that Christ recommends it over marriage. On what basis?

Show me the Scripture where Jesus recommends celibacy over marriage. I've asked before and not yet gotten an answer.

What book, chapter, and verse?

324 posted on 07/17/2014 6:48:35 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Where in the Bible does it say that all doctrine is contained in the Bible? It doesn’t. That’s a tradition of men. Yet you adhere to this man-made tradition, and typically ignore Christ’s command to “listen to the Church,” the “pillar and foundation of truth,” as recorded in the Bible.

Oh, you KNOW that, eh?

How? You don't know me. Or are you presuming to read my mind?

And what church? Yours? Mine? Someone else's?

Or are you just objecting because I don't submit to Catholicism? Why would I listen to a church that I don't attend?

Or is that working on the assumption that the Catholic church thinks that it has some kind of authority over me for some reason?

325 posted on 07/17/2014 6:51:41 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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