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To: GarySpFc
The article above suggesta that a better definition of the baptism of "converts" in Christendom is needed. But the account is sort of meandering and at times inconclusive. Here is a shorter, more precise, and Scripturally well-suupported definiyion, from the "Happy Heralds" site:

VI. BAPTISM OF DISCIPLES OR WATER BAPTISM

(click on the above to view the entire article)

*********beginning of excerpt*************

Now consider the seven factors of Baptism of Disciples.

I. A PARTICULAR MESSAGE PROCLAIMED.

The particular message proclaimed in connection with the Baptism of Disciples is The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ (Mk.16:15), but also to “make disciples” of people of all nations and “keep ALL things watchfully secure whatsoever I have commanded you&” Mt.28:19,20 APT). This message includes: His Creatorship; His Deity; His virgin birth; His perfection; His agonizing, vicarious death enduring the Wrath of The God in darkness; His burial; His resurrection-ascension and high priestly ministry; His exaltation; the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ; His Saviorhood (Acts 5:31) and the basis on which Salvation including forgiveness of sins is appropriated (Acts 20:21); and His Lordship including the true meaning of Disciples’ Baptism, that the disciple together with Christ is crucified to Sin, self, and the world and lives the victorious, resurrected life as an overcomer (Mt. 7:21; Acts 10:36; Lk. 6:46-48; Rom. 12:1,2: Gal. 2:20; 1 Jn. 4:1,4,5; 5:4,5; Rev. 21:7,8).

When Peter first preached The Gospel and opened the Kingdom to the Jews with the keys The Lord Jesus Christ had given to him, he preached The Gospel of Christ and the necessity of repentance for Salvation followed by the command to be baptized at once. A few days later Peter had a little better understanding of The Gospel. He did not tell the hearers to be baptized, but he told them to repent and be converted (Acts 3:19). So he moved away from the preaching the act of baptism in connection with Salvation. But in the beginning he preached it because of the understanding from the fact that The Lord Jesus baptized and His disciples baptized and prior to that John baptized. There was a primitive understanding about baptism, but as The Holy Spirit revealed The Truth more clearly, the contents of the message became more precise and the act of baptism was not retained in the message of The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ. As one reads through the Book of Acts, at first one finds the Deity of Christ (3:13) is emphasized, then the perfection of Christ (3:14) and His death, burial and His resurrection-ascension (3:15). Also included in The Gospel is the exaltation of Christ (His ascension to the right hand of The God) and His coming again was alluded to (3:19) and then the emphasis on The Saviorhood and The Lordship of Christ, not in word but in deed (the ones who actually do his will, making Him The Lord of their lives (Acts 10:36). “He is Lord of all!” Thus The Saviorhood (Acts 5:31; 13:23) and The Lordship of Christ (Acts 2:36; 10:36; Rom. 10:9) were also involved in the particular message that was proclaimed.

II. A FAITH PROVEN (EXERCISED).

The faith that is exercised is saving faith in The Lord Jesus Christ that is proven by means of the Baptism by The Holy Spirit. The fact that one has been truly baptized by The Holy Spirit and therefore regenerated is proof that the faith committed to The Lord Jesus Christ has been accompanied by repentance and acknowledged by The Father. The change in lifestyle and persistent obedience to all Scripture is evidence that such repentance and saving faith has been committed. Additionally, the candidate for disciples’ baptism demonstrates that he or she has indeed been crucified to Sin, self, and the world together with Christ and therefore needs to be buried with Christ in the likeness of His burial and resurrection to walk in newness of life (Acts 8:12, 37; 9:18; 10:47, 48; 16:15, 33, 34; 18:8; 19:4, 5).

"But when they committed trust to the evangelizing[pronouncing glad tidings] by Philip with reference to the~ things concerning the Kingdom of The God and the name of /Jesus Christ, both men and women were being baptized" (Acts 8:12 APT*).

Notice who were the ones being baptized by Philip in Samaria: men (husbands) and women (wives), but not children! Remember now this is disciples’ baptism. It is difficult for young children to become disciples. They can learn about The Lord Jesus Christ, but they have great difficulty in making disciples by themselves and greater difficulty denying the self life and being dead to Sin, self, and the world. It becomes a problem with them, mainly because they have not matured and their bodies have not fully developed.

The Ethiopian eunuch proved his faith by vocally identifying himself with The Lord Jesus Christ and requesting of himself to be baptized (Acts 8:37). It is essential that the candidate for Disciples’ Baptism of oneself request baptism when that one meets the qualifications for baptism even as the Ethiopian eunuch did. The apostle Paul’s faith was proven in a deeper way. He had given evidence that he was a changed man. As a matter of fact, unless Saul was a changed man, Ahnahnéeahs did not even want to go near him (Acts 9:13-17).

In Philippi, Ludéeah attended unto the things which were spoken of by Paul and she was baptized and her household (Acts 16:14,15). Now the household in this particular case, if you go back to verses 12,13 all were women. The household of Lydia was a household of women servants, neither children nor husband nor men were involved. So Paul and Lydia proved their faith. Also in Philippi there was the Philippian jailer who gave evidence that he believed as he came and took Paul and Séelahs and washed their stripes (Acts 16:32-34). The jailor saw the evidence of their faith in Jesus Christ by the fact that these men were not going to escape and run away but stayed there in the prison after the earthquake opened the doors. He took them into his home and showed by his life of caring for their stripes that he meant business with The God, and straightway he and all his were baptized. Again the household is referring to servants as it usually does, and does not include children, because God usually tells us when children are meant. But in every case along the way it has been men and women and the household. It is reading into Scripture what is not there if one makes the ‘house’ mean little children. Finally reference is made to many Corinthians being baptized but not all by Paul (Acts 18:8). Kréespohs believed with all his house. It does not say that his whole house was baptized. In Paul’s Epistle to the Corinthians he indicates who he baptized (1 Cor. 1:14-16).

III. AN ACTION PERFORMED.

There must be an action performed on the part of the participant to be baptized by The Holy Spirit. Here with disciples’ baptism the action is death to Sin, self, and the world and yielding to The Holy Spirit’s work to be a bondslave to Righteousness and to The God and thus demonstrating that Sin is not reigning in one’s mortal body and fruit is being borne unto sanctification (Rom. 6:11,22,4-6; Col. 2:11,12). But one cannot be buried by baptism into death if one has not reckoned oneself to be dead. So the action performed is a reckoning to be dead, the act of burial and planting in the waters of baptism and rising to new life. There has to be the reckoning to be dead before there can be the burial. The burial takes place simultaneously with the planting. For what reason is a fruit tree planted? To bear fruit. (Jesus said, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” He also said that the good soil is that which bears fruit, some thirty, some sixty, and some an hundredfold.

The purpose of the baptism is that discipleship has progressed to the fruit-bearing stage (Jn. 15:8). The evidence in the life is that there has been (the reckoning of death to self, sin, and the world) and now the burial takes place and the planting in order that after this there should be fruit bearing and walking in newness of life (rising out of the water unto new life in Christ).

IV. A CONFESSION PRONOUNCED.

The confession that must be pronounced at the baptism of a disciple is as follows, "The Lord Jesus Christ, The Son of God is my Savior and Lord. I am now dead to Sin, self, and the world. Christ now lives in me and through me" (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 4:1, 2).

The eunuch said, "I am committing trust that Jesus Christ is The Son of The God." Further confession includes, He is my Savior and Lord, because in The Gospel that Peter preached recorded in The Book of Acts he emphasized the Lordship (Acts 2:36; 10:36) and the Saviorhood (Acts 5:31) of The Christ. If He is The Son of The God, and He is, then He is my Savior (1 Tim. 4:10; Tit. 2:13,14) and my Lord (Rom. 10:9,10). This is the confession that must be pronounced. Also I must confess that I am dead to Sin, self, and the world and The Lord Jesus Christ liveth in me and through me (Gal. 2:20). I live this new life in Christ by His faith so that it is His life living through me.

V. THE MEANING PROJECTED -- Resurrection.

The meaning of the Baptism of a disciple is that the participant is spiritually passing through death, burial and planting, Resurrection, and living a new, victorious, resurrection life in the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:4,5; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; 6:14). It also means that the disciple has been clothed with Christ (Gal. 3:27) and has been circumcised by means of circumcision not made with hands through the operation and effectual working of The God (Col. 2:10-12)

VI. AN INDICATION PRODUCED -- Funeral.

The indication that is produced by Baptism of a Disciple is that he or she is going to one’s own white funeral and is no longer living unto self, Sin, and the world, but unto Him Who died for that one and rose again. It indicates to the world that that disciple belongs to The Lord Jesus Christ and no longer lives unto himself or herself as a bondslave to sin and unrighteousness, but unto Him Who died in that one’s stead and rose again to give that one new and absolute life. It also indicates that he or she has a beneficially good and clear conscience with regard to God (1 Pet. 3:18-21).

VII. AN IDENTIFICATION PROFESSED.

The Baptism of a disciple identifies him or her as a committed disciple and bondslave of The Lord Jesus Christ. It also identifies him or her as one that is buried and planted with The Lord Jesus Christ to begin producing fruit for His glory.

***********end of excerpt*************

By Dr. Fred Wittman

* APT = from "A Precise Translation" of which the volume "The Gospels: A precise Translation" is freely available at the above we site

5 posted on 06/27/2014 12:54:18 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1; GarySpFc
If a Church/pastor-administered baptism is not conducted in the original mode of immersion in living water, being applied to fruit-bearing dedicated believers, to physically picture the literal spiritual transition from death and depravity in Satan to an abundant and pure life in Christ, then that rite has no Christian meaning or value.

It would then be a fraudulent dodging of the intent of the ordinance as given by Jesus and obeyed by the apostles who baptized for him under his direction from the beginning of his ministry.

6 posted on 06/27/2014 1:18:20 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
When Peter first preached The Gospel and opened the Kingdom to the Jews with the keys The Lord Jesus Christ had given to him, he preached The Gospel of Christ and the necessity of repentance for Salvation followed by the command to be baptized at once. A few days later Peter had a little better understanding of The Gospel. He did not tell the hearers to be baptized, but he told them to repent and be converted (Acts 3:19). So he moved away from the preaching the act of baptism in connection with Salvation. But in the beginning he preached it because of the understanding from the fact that The Lord Jesus baptized and His disciples baptized and prior to that John baptized. There was a primitive understanding about baptism, but as The Holy Spirit revealed The Truth more clearly, the contents of the message became more precise and the act of baptism was not retained in the message of The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ.

According to your position Jesus command to go into the world and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was an error on His part. Furthermore, we see baptism in water after Acts 3.

Let me suggest there are two parts to one baptism, one part the sinner does by faith, and the second is completed with God giving the Holy Spirit by grace.

7 posted on 06/27/2014 10:30:09 AM PDT by GarySpFc (We are saved by the precious blood of the God-man. Evidenceforjesuschrist.org)
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