Posted on 06/21/2014 6:51:12 PM PDT by ebb tide
In 2014, how can grown men write this with a straight face?
International Theological Commission of the Catholic Church
The Church had one Pentecost. One. The Church does not need new foundations, she is not a country in search of new constitutional orders. Enough is enough: 50 years of collapse of the sensus catholicus, collapse of Catholic life in all countries where the Church was firmly established in Europe and the Americas, near-disappearance of all Catholic communities across the Middle East (in this case, mostly through no fault of the hierarchy, but still indicating that speaking of a "new Pentecost" is a mockery), collapse of vocations and religious life, that is enough. The only communities holding up are those of some regions in Africa -- and precisely those that preserve the faith of the original missionaries and that reject dialogue with the wicked immoral spirit of the contemporary world -- as well as those tiny congregations around the world making their best to worship as the Church always did and teach what the Church always taught.
The delusion must end: Vatican II was not a new Pentecost. A renewal of the Church can only come from the "old" Pentecost, the first and only Pentecost, whose living word is Apostolic Tradition straight from the Lord -- "Paraclitus autem Spiritus Sanctus, quem mittet Pater in nomine meo, ille vos docebit omnia, et suggeret vobis omnia quæcumque dixero vobis." (Jn 14: 26: "the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.")
____________________ [Note: This is not a dismissal, of course, of the whole document -- recalling the consultative and advisory nature of the commission. As every committee-based document of the past five decades, however, it is often confusing and unclear. In any event, there is one excerpt in particular that should be highlighted: "The magisterium and theology must work constantly to renew the presentation of the faith in different situations, confronting if necessary dominant notions of Christian truth with the actual truth of the Gospel, but it must be recalled that the experience of the Church shows that sometimes the truth of the faith has been conserved not by the efforts of theologians or the teaching of the majority of bishops but in the hearts of believers." (n. 119)]
True, with those doing it thinking they are so right when it is simply just opinions. They end of acting like trolls in the process.
Having faith in Christ must come first.
Yup, the Pope just expressing his "opinion".
It's a good thing Vatican II changed everything, right?
Belief in Christ includes belief in the Church He established.
I don’t think they “forget”. I don’t think most “know”. Vatican II modernized the religion so much that Catholics speak like Modernists nowadays. It’s why comments like “heretics” offend them so.
There's no opinion to it...It's bible...I'll stick with the inspired words of God in the scriptures...The scriptures that condemn your religion...
So what?
Keep rationalizing your behavior. Meanwhile every time you scream “heretic”, another lurker thinks, “This is Catholicism? No thanks.”
Then they’re not interested in the Truth of the Catholic Faith. They are more interested in any one of the false religions because they are “nicer”.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He didn't say "this church over here is the truth."
" They are more interested in any one of the false religions because they are “nicer”."
Is it your position that non-Catholic Christians are practicing false religion?
In the Bible, Jesus says, “That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18
Please note that Christ said, “church”, not “churches”.
Also in the Bible, Jesus says, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” John 20:23
Does your not Bible state the same? If not, who decided to edit the works of the Holy Ghost?
*crickets*
Didn't think I'd get an answer to that one. But I think I have it, nevertheless.
I can’t answer for piusv, but that is my position.
Pre-Vatican II the Catholic Church made it very clear that Catholicism is the only true religion and the only true Church. So, yes, anything that is not Catholic is false. This was (and is) the Traditional Catholic position.
And what’s with the *crickets* comment? You posted late at night. I went to bed.
Thank you for your honesty. To sum up---in your view, a person can accept Jesus Christ, be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and live his or her life for the Lord, but if the person isn't walking through the doors of a Catholic church on Sunday, he/she is a heretic practicing a false religion.
Understood.
Of course it is. Doesn't surprise me at all, but at least you're willing to admit it.
Not in “my” view. In the Traditional Catholic view. This isn’t about me. It’s about being faithful to Christ and His Catholic Church.
Most Catholics you know have been infected with Modernism and Protestantism. It’s no wonder you are shocked to hear a Catholic say these things.
And to be honest, I thought about your concern last night. I felt bad that my comments bothered you. But then I also realized that all I did was speak as Catholic popes spoke in the past. I’m sure they offended a lot of people.
Piusv, I’m sorry to disillusion you, but your comments don’t “bother” me. As a child of Jesus Christ, they simply don’t have that capability. You lack the understanding that He exists outside the doors of your denomination. You place limits on the Lord of creation.
Nor am I shocked to see you admit your belief. I wanted to see if you would be honest enough to do so, in bald terms, and you were.
Yes, you are in error, and you lack understanding of the power of salvation through Jesus. You don’t boast about Him, as Paul instructed us to do; your misplaced pride is in your denomination, your popes, your history, your buildings, your traditions. While I find that sad, we’re not going to change each other’s minds, so it is what it is.
But you needed to be called on it.
It does lead back to my original point as to why some folks on this forum have given me a negative opinion of Catholicism. I expect there are Catholics here who understand exactly where I’m coming from.
Have a blessed day.
Sure sounded like you were bothered.
Understanding of Jesus Christ includes His One True Church. It is you who misses the mark. Other so-called Catholics fail in promoting the Faith when they don't tell you so. And you "needed to be called on it".
I do hope that someday you (and the Catholics that get where you're coming from) will come to know and love Jesus Christ in His Traditional Catholic Faith.
Church is used two ways in the scriptures...One is the collective, spiritual Body of Christ...The other is various called out assemblies of believers, churches...
Also in the Bible, Jesus says, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” John 20:23
This promise is given to all spirit indwelt Christians...
You guys don't look at scripture very closely, do you??? You'll notice that if a sinner forgives the sins of another sinner, the other sinner is forgiven (already)...But if YOU retain another sinner's sins, they are retained, BY YOU...
Bearing in mind that we know God will forgive any and all sins, 1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness., regardless of who retains them, it might be wise not to retain anyone's sins...
Mar_11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
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