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To: hosepipe
"Is being born again.... EVOLUTION!?.... survival of the fittest?.. Intelligent design?..."

No.

I would say that "conversion" or "being born again" or, "spiritual re-birth"is as close to the exact opposite of "evolution" as a example can get.

Salvation is the result of one of the most "un-natural" and unique and non-repeatable events ever observed by humankind: the willful, loving self-sacrifice of the Very Son of God, Jesus Christ. How much more "non-Darwinian" can you get...?

~~~~~~~~

If, OTOH, you are referring to the changes that take place in the life and spirit of one who "has been born again", during maturation of the "new-born" Christian", again, I would say,

"No."

If there ever were a perfect example of of a "guided process" (as opposed to a 'random, 'drunkard's walk' progression [aka "evolution"], I would state unequivocally that maturation of a truly "re-born" believer is that case.

Bottom line: as one who has invented and developed hyper-sensitive measurement instrumentation, I can conceive of no physico/chemicical/biological phenomenon that is available as detectable, measurable evidence of the experience of being "born again" or of the spiritual maturation of the resulting Christian.

"Evolution"?

"No."

Divine, miraculous Providence?

"YES."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the doctor's building to which I now depart has wi-fi, I may "rejoin, revise, and extend" this dialogue. Otherwise, I'll check back this evening -- in hopes of seeing wisdom and additional testimony displayed here in response to your query...

103 posted on 06/20/2014 7:03:36 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: TXnMA; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; xzins
The following are quite cogent:

• It is an "instantaneous step-function" change -- not a gradual process.

• It relies on no known "natural" process or law; it is fully "miraculous" and totally beyond scientific explanation.

• It is attributable only to a Divine and miraculous act of God through his Son, Jesus Christ.

• It is also the result of conscious acts of decision of the human will: conscious and deliberate rejection of past sins, and acceptance of the almighty, saving Grace of Almighty God.

•[...I expect that others (who have personal experience of salvation) can and may add several further insights to this list...]

Perhaps 'phase shift' might fit as a better way of expressing the change which happens with Conversion/Salvation. After all, we humans have been imbued with something not found in other creatures of God's Creating; we have a spirit, into which God's level of Life through the Holy Spirit enters into the Created, living thing, accomplishing what Jesus said He came to accomplish, give us Life more abundantly.

God is not willing that any be lost, but some will by their choice of belief or non-belief not allow this 'phase shift' to happen to them and will be lost to the life which is coming in greater fullness, greater abundance.

This phase shift via individual choice should not startle modern humans since Physics has shown that even the observer effects the outcome merely by observing.

104 posted on 06/20/2014 9:28:16 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: TXnMA
If the doctor's building to which I now depart has wi-fi, I may "rejoin, revise, and extend" this dialogue. Otherwise, I'll check back this evening -- in hopes of seeing wisdom and additional testimony displayed here in response to your query...
------------------------------------------------------------

So, I see.. "being born again" is NOT being born again it's a metaphor for some type of miracle.. or change in carnality.. confirmed by abilty to read the bible.. and follow it rote.. conflated by baptism or death of the old man?..

I might have you wrong but I don't believe it's that complicated..

105 posted on 06/20/2014 12:02:35 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: betty boop; SeekAndFind; metmom; Alamo-Girl; marron; xzins; YHAOS; MHGinTN
I intended to copy the rest of you on my # 103 -- but the MD's office had no wi-fi...
106 posted on 06/20/2014 1:08:23 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: TXnMA

VERY, very well said, dear brother in Christ! Thank you!


143 posted on 06/20/2014 8:37:24 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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