[piusv]

Yes, it is interesting that JPII excommunicated a man that was more Catholic than most of the Novus Ordites put together. It’s pretty clear how the Novus Ordo/Vatican II hierarchy views and treats Traditionalist Catholics. Francis continues in that “tradition”.

[BlackElk]

I am a Traditionalist Catholic who now attends the Tridentine Mass at an Oratory of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest. I did not feel at all persecuted by the Vatican of John Paul I, St. John Paul II or Benedict XVI. I did feel that Benedict XVI was overly generous to Fellay, de Mallerais and the other living schismatic SSPX ring leaders by lifting their excommunications. Naturalloy, they responded by biting him for not obeying their "orders" to a pope no less.

I am less thrilled by Francis but perhaps God is punishing us mildly as occurs from time to time (John XXIII and Paul VI, for example).

In saner times, however, Marcel LeFebvre and his cult love slaves would have been burned at the stake and rightfully and justly so. "Tradition" does not consist in disobeying, despising and badmouthing solid popes like St. John Paul II, as you well know. If not, go form a "church" of your own. It is my hope that SSPX will NEVER be allowed back into "good standing" with the Vatican.

[BlackElk]

Oh, and one more thing, the Novus Ordo Mass may be a liturgical low rent district but it IS a valid Mass and has regrettably become normative. SSPX and other schismatic groups have done more damage than good, by far. The infernal tongue of de Mallerais, the Holocaust denial of Williamson, the all purpose dishonesty and disobedience of LeFebvre make legitimate attempts at restoration far more difficult than they should be.