Posted on 06/08/2014 8:26:19 PM PDT by Phinneous
but if you are getting the idea that Christians are saying that non-Jewish Christian practice has a valid place...
“Meshuga (crazy)” You sound like a chassid.... we already have a tradition of being crazy for G-d. It dates back to the Tabernacle. (I believe this predates Jesus by about 800 years)
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/basi-legani/08.htm
It’s a little “yeshivish” (ie, in a mix of English, Yiddish, and transliterated Hebrew) but you may find it interesting.
Well we crazy meshugah Christians (you’ll find that a lot among fundies) do believe in the “loyal love” of the Lord. Christians, too, have been accused of going mad for God. I’m thinking yesterday, Pentecost in a traditional Christian calendar. It commemorates how many believing Jews were together in a room and the Spirit came upon them and they worshiped in languages that weren’t native.
There’s a poetic form in the bible, the Shiggaion, which also I believe derives from a Hebrew root meaning to “go mad.” It is a highly emotional form. And there are other passages in the Psalms that go nearly that way. I really don’t understand cold Jews and cold Christians. God was and is not cold.
Of course it is - How else to almost fool the very elect? The problem isn't in the New Testament itself, but rather in how it is interpreted.
There are, were, and always will be until Christ’s return, “Judaizers.” Who will insist the Jewish style is the only valid Christian style.
Do you really think it is about 'style'? YHWH does not change. Yeshua (our example) does not change.
As to 'Judaizers', one must understand the distinction between Torah and tradition, in just the same way that Roman tradition effects Christianity.
And the proof is in the prophets. They proclaim a day when the whole world will keep Torah, to include the Sabbath and the Holy Days... How then, does Christianity get from here to there? Just sayin.
Judaism can certainly seem cold, unfortunately and to our detriment. We do believe that it was part of G-d’s plan to sustain us until this time. For warmth, see Chassidus.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/147465/jewish/On-the-Teachings-of-Chassidus.htm
God maintains an echo of what He is about in traditional Jewish worship, there is no doubt about it to me.
God doesn’t take His marbles and go home in a snit just because some people are a little slow to get the point. God won’t tolerate a sinful creation literally forever, but when He said He was longsuffering He was not kidding.
Yes, I know there is a stark difference in belief about exactly what God did in “madness.” But I pays my money and I takes my choice. Christ has panned out wonderfully for me. I really am a sad sinner needing salvation and yet God has forgiven all of that already. In advance, in a view that no mortal can imagine. He let me choose to sin, and now He has let me choose to love Him unto salvation.
Some people say that since the Savior lived as a Jew, this means all saved Gentiles must, too. But no. No more than all Christians must die on actual crosses. This is a problem that to me, bespeaks reducing Jesus to an idol. That was a great risk God took and why in early revelation God warned the Hebrews that “they saw no likeness on the mountain.” Because if they did, they’d idolize it!
No... at least not while on earth. I pays my money and takes my choice. Realizing however, that a time is coming when the blessing of the Lord will be so fulsome upon the Jews that Gentiles will want to be one of them (and that will be granted). The distinction here is one of freedom.
No, rather, liberty - As a good Conservative and American, I know you know the difference.
I don’t tag myself with sub-Christian labels, of which you have used two.
Freedom. Don’t cobble it up with connotations of a sinful world. Liberty is a close synonym.
How else to fool the very elect?... that ATTEMPT to fool them (which will fail in the end once they wise up) will of course involve a theology that twists the scriptures, but that doesn’t mean that what I have asserted twists the scriptures.
The bible itself says that the fooling will be done with “signs and miracles.” And it will, I believe, be marked with great parochialism. Be part of our cult or you aren’t saved! they will holler, as they do works that will have a demonic cast.
I remain very much unconvinced. The apostle John, typical of enlightened Jews of the first century (the early church), had a much different interpretation of what "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made" (Psalms 33:6) meant. And it wasn't Hebrew letters!
In the prologue to his gospel he said, "All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made," "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."
The "Word" that created all things, in the fullness of time made flesh, and dwelt among us, was none other than the virgin born Jesus of Nazareth (Yeshua to you), your Messiah and Savior.
Why not take the insight of John and the rest of the early Jewish church about the meaning of the creative "Word?" Instead of the highly mystical opinions of Kabbalists? John and the early Jewish church, after all, were as much, if not more, Jewish than you, moreover, they lived some 2000 years closer to the truth than you.
More Jewish than me??!!?? No way! I’m hard core! :)
It’s binary: Jewish or not. So if they existed and were Jewish, then we’d be the same.
But if you insist on preaching, here’s a story:
A Jew converted and went to a Christian seminary. After immersing himself in studies, and with a knack for speaking, his priests and teachers decided to give him the pulpit.
After the riveting sermon, the priests approached him. “Wonderful! Powerful!” “But, do you think next time you could start with something other than, ‘My fellow goyim...?’”
Once Jewish (for real) always Jewish. (not your original topic, but cute, no?)
I've been listening to a few videos by Jonathan Cahn, a converted Jew. He seems to know the OT, too. Has a following, seems sincere. He got cranked up at the Prayer Breakfast and several people walked out.
Understand that I am not accusing you.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
I think that this occurred long ago. The times (Holy Days) and Laws (Torah) have surely been 'changed'. And we are told that it was Yeshua himself that changed them - Or left power in men to change them... That cannot be true.
The problem for the frog in the pot is what he does not know - What he does know is comfortable... old... reliable.
The bible itself says that the fooling will be done with “signs and miracles.” And it will, I believe, be marked with great parochialism. Be part of our cult or you aren’t saved! they will holler, as they do works that will have a demonic cast.
We live among miracles and wonders provided by technology - and demoniacs are 'cured' by medicine and psychiatry, or admitted into society by adjusting societal norms. and the churches acquiesce, and fall back...
Frog in a pot.
Except that liberty comes with responsibilities.
Not an overly useful post for F.R.
Very interesting analysis.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachHe missing only one fine point.
Yah'shua rebuked the Pharisees when
the Oral tradition impugned the Torah.
Freedom carries the inner inclination to respond... we call it love. Freedom is not enslavement to random whim. We might eat apple pie or pumpkin pie by freedom, but we won’t eat poisons.
I think the distinction you have made is a warning about what you need to look at. Be careful of “enslavement to rules.”
Those wascally Christians had a voice.
I take it then you are more Jewish than John. And more Jewish than the author of the book of Hebrews, I suppose...
Who said God had appointed the Son of God “heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds,” 1:2. “FOR whom are all things, and BY whom are all things,” 2:10.
John also, speaking of the Word in Genesis that spoke life into the world, said, “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life,” 1 John 1.
Phinneous, my friend, IT WASN’T LETTERS OF THE HEBREW ALPHABET John had seen with his own eyes, looked upon, and handled with his own hands!
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