Replies

ealgeone:

Ok, so at lest you are honest enough to clearly state the NT does “NOT” define what and how the Church is to do in terms of worship.

As for Mary, the Catholic Church does not worship Mary nor does the Orthodox Church. Mary is among the Saints, the most important yes, she is highly venerated, yes, but not worshiped. The Mother of God is an English phrase that has to be understood in its theological context. Nestorianism was a heresy in the early 5th century that stated only the Human person Christ was born of Mary. Well if that is true, then when did Christ become Divine, at is presentation in the temple, at his baptism at Jordan, or was it on the Cross, or was it after his resurrection. All of this hints at the broader heresy known as adoptionism and what it also does is implies that Chris was 2 Persons, 1 Divine and 1 Human, which of course also conflicts with earlier Dogmatic Teachings at the Council of Nicea and Constantinopile, 325 and 381, respectively, that God is One but in terms of a communion of persons, he is 3 distinct persons [Latin term] or 3 hypostasis [to use the Greek term, I think I have the Greek correct]. So who did Mary give birth to, Christ Jesus, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity and thus the Divine Person Jesus Christ was incarnate and born of the Virgin Mary and he thus has 1 True Divine and True Human Nature. Mary accordingly as the Council of Ephesus in 431 declared in response to the heresy of Nestorius was correctly referred to as the Most Holy Theotokos [Greek] which in Latin was Mater Dei which we get in English as Mother of God. As such, this dogmatic definition actually has direct Christological implication and once you move away from it, all types of Christological heresies follow.

For the record, I have been here 7 years and there are quite a few Nestorian heretics on this site among the FR Protestant brigades.

The Assumption of Mary was a dogmatic teaching, its is rooted in the early Church and comes from the Eastern Liturgical Tradition [called the Domition of Mary I think in the Orthodox Liturgy]. There is Patristic theology that does state Mary was taken up to Heaven [Later Church Fathers].

As for the Mormons, they go off the rails on much more important issues. They are in conflict with every Trinitarian Doctrine of the Catholic Church and Orthodox as well who hold to the 4 Great Councils of the early Church Nicea, Constantinopile, Ephesus and Chalcedon and their Christology is also flawed.

Doctrine has not changed. The belief that Mary was assumed into Heaven is one held in the early Church, although doesn’t really start to get written about probably until the 4th century. There are numerous theologians that point to Revelation 12 as having multi layered meanings, one of which is pointing to Mary as representing the Church.

I have read John 3 and to put salvation into 1 line of Scripture is the typical Protestant approach, although most of them go down a few lines of Saint Paul from Romans and thus the entire NT is actually interpreted that way, which is back rear end backwards. The entire Bible, for a Catholic perspective speaks of Christ the OT, to use Saint Augustine’s image is a prefigurement of the NT, thus the NT lies hidden in the Old and the NT brings to fulfillment what was in the OT. Christ is the heart of the Bible thus the 4 Gospels hold a place of centrality in the Biblical canon and thus all of the NT Epistles that follow have to interpreted in light of the person of Christ.

The Didache when read in light of the Church’s faith does not contradict the Bible. It contradicts what you think the Bible says. There was no contradiction to the early Church Fathers who read the Scriptures and Didache as part of the same Apostolic Faith.

Ok, so you are a Bible alone. Not surprising. I reject the Protestant notion of Sola scriptura for history has shown it is unworkable. Christ founded a Church and the Church and the Bible all have their source in that same person of Christ. I do not put them against each other like two armies fighting each other, i.e the Knights watch and the Wildlings last night in Game of Thrones.