The Bible states in many places that we are not to tolerate gross habitual sin in the midst of our congregations.
That is why there used to be Church discipline, that now is practiced only by a relatively small remnant of Churches. ———————————————————
I think there is some truth to that. However, my church actually did do just that and it caused my sister to leave them because she thought they were being harsh. The music director was openly homosexual and they kept reprimanding him but he kept returning to the lifestyle. They finally fired him.
I think this is an interesting concept regarding me, personally, as well. My hobby is playing music. I’m a bass player in a few bands, each a different genre. I live in a dry county in the bible belt and go to a Baptist church that considers drinking a sin. Yet I have a full bar at home and play in bars in the local wet counties.
I have no problem with that because I strongly disagree with my church. But it goes deeper than that. Our Sunday school class a few weeks ago focused on alcohol. I was biting my tongue in class because I seem to know more about scripture on this subject than any member of that church, including the pastor. There is this dogmatic belief that causes them to read a scripture that talks about gluttony and drunkenness and then the fat members use that scripture to prove that any drinking is evil.
And yes, they actually brought up that the “wine” Jesus made from water was really grape juice. That’s where I lost it, removed my teeth from my tongue and tried to explain to the class that the people “in bible times” were real people with real lives in a real world, and yes, they drank WINE at weddings and that the bible even drove the point home when the wine steward commented on it being the “best wine” which most people serve first.
Yes, they still bought into the “it was grape juiece” nonsense.
And the same thing happens on other subjects to the point where I’m wondering if there is enough difference in their teachings and mine that maybe we should change churches. We don’t because the people there really are like children in their beliefs and that is a very good thing. But it can have its challenges. I do learn from them and I hope they learn from me. Those are, after all, the only two reasons for going to church. We certainly don’t need it to worship God. We can do that all day, every day, wherever we are.
I agree with your reading of Scripture.
I remember in both OT and NT, we are commanded not to add to or take away from God’s Word (just a sample of applicable verses):
Deuteronomy 4:2 “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
1 Timothy 4
“1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
A common theme in the Bible is to do ALL of what the Lord commands and ONLY what the Lord commands, to not add to, take away from or change God’s revealed Word. It is very emphatic. Remembering King Saul’s unlawful offering (not heeding the direct revelation of the prophet Samuel):
1 Samuel 10:8 “8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.”
1 Samuel 13:13 “13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the Lord thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the Lord have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.”
He was told to wait for Samuel and he did not, he went and performed the sacrifice for himself. What’s worse, he made excuses instead of repenting when Samuel confronted him. We all sin and God will forgive, but we must repent and ask for his forgiveness, instead of stubbornly denying that we sinned.
If we look throughout all of Scripture we find a prohibition of drunkenness, but no prohibition of drinking alcoholic beverages. When we add that strict prohibition, we are making up a rule that does not exist in Scripture.
Yes, they had fermented wine in Biblical times; wine keeps very well around 55F (+/- depending on the expert you talk to; this is around normal ground temperature once you go down a few feet).
Regarding worship, once again, the Bible should be our guide; this is the WCF link:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_XXI.html