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To: Mrs. Don-o

You can ignore the history of the Catholic Church protecting child rapists by transferring them to other churches instead of having them arrested, but I can’t.

The real numbers are something we cannot know, because the overwhelming majority went unreported. They get reported far more often in other circles.

Admittedly, the problem may have gotten better now, because of so many cases having been brought to the public’s attention.

None of this has anything to do with a vow of celibacy, which is not based on anything religious, but rather on protecting the money and holdings of the Church.

It is unnatural to deny biology and force people to abstain from sex. Some will be able to handle it. Some won’t, and those who can’t control it will continue to be an ongoing concern to society.


29 posted on 06/03/2014 7:27:03 PM PDT by sakic
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To: sakic
It is unnatural to deny biology and force people to abstain from sex.

Nobody is forced to be a priest.

30 posted on 06/03/2014 7:31:19 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: sakic
The "forced not to have sex" thing is bogus. Every man (gay, straight, whatever --- though I don't necessarily accept these labels) in the Catholic Church is expected to be celibate -- that is, unless he is married to a woman, in which case he is expected to be monogamous. "Celibate or monogamous" is the norm of Christian morality for all.

Neither of these states, celibate or monogamous, is necessarily perceived as "natural" for a man. I think most men can be aroused by a large number of women, and if aroused, could have intercourse almost any time: that is, if he were to do what seems to come "naturally."

Some men-- acting at a level above their instincts and appetites -- have a capacity for life-long celibacy, as Jesus and Paul both said, and all the rest for life-long monogamy. The Western Church chooses priests from the ranks of the celibate.

Nobody is "forcing" anything. USCCB guidelines require approximately 8 years of education, training and discernment to become a priest: four years of undergraduate study of philosophy and four years of graduate study in theology (for men coming directly from high school). During those whole 8 years they are getting a very good idea of whether they're cut out for lifelong celibacy, or not. You'd maybe agree that if a man could be more or less serenely celibate between the ages of 18 and 26, he probably has a vocation to celibacy.

Lots of young men leave seminary without being ordained, because they experience a strong desire for marriage and family. The percentage of seminarians who drop out without being ordained varies (different places, different years) but I've read that on a rough overall average about 50% of seminarians do not go on to become priests.

So men who are celibate are given every possible opportunity over a number of years to discern whether they have a vocation to lifelong celibacy.

If married men feel they have a call to Holy Orders, they can become deacons, which is an ordained clerical vocation just like the priesthood is.

There's no force or coercion here at all. If anything, the lengthy years of preparation --- during which they can leave at any time --- tend to thin the ranks down to the ones who really have a celibate vocation.

32 posted on 06/04/2014 6:23:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to act justly, to love tenderly, to walk humbly with your God)
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To: sakic

“The real numbers are something we cannot know, because the overwhelming majority went unreported”

I think it would be better stated if you said: “The real numbers are something we cannot know.”

The part where you say “the overwhelming majority went unreported” is unprovable.

Is it possible there were more abuses than we know of?

Yes, possible.

However, it is speculation not fact to say “the overwhelming majority went unreported” because. . .well. . .it is unreported and we have no facts to say how many were unreported.

You can say you think such a thing but you can’t argue that as a fact.

IMHO.


33 posted on 06/04/2014 8:08:15 AM PDT by Hulka
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