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To: narses; daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; BlueDragon; dartuser; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; CynicalBear
Narses thanks for posting. I am just getting to this thread so if there are some redundant comments, apologies in advance.

The first question I would like to ask is why is the perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary a critical importance to Roman Catholic doctrine? I am sure the Roman Catholic church does not view conjugal marital relations as 'sinful.' Or a disqualifier for some reason to receive the adoration Roman Catholics offer to Mary.

From the article:

Moreover, no Scripture can be produced that absolutely, undeniably, compellingly defeats the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Unless we look at 'until' and wrestle with what the word actually means and what some want it to mean. Until is well Until:

Matthew 1:

24 And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. 25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

'til' (until) 'heos': (G2193): 'till' or 'until'.

Is there really any argument on what 'till' or 'until' means in both our language and the Greek. It means what it says---until which is "up to (the point in time or the event mentioned)."

Other uses of 'till' and 'until' in the Gospel of Matthew are:

So all the generations from Abraham to G2193 David are fourteen generations; and from David until G2193 the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto G2193 Christ are fourteen generations.

When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till G2193 it came and stood over where the young child was.

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till G2193 the Son of man be come.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until G2193 John.

Seems 'till' and 'until' are used consistently throughout this Gospel.

303 posted on 06/02/2014 11:40:00 AM PDT by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: redleghunter

I stopped looking to scripture to try to understand Catholicism. Look at mysticism and paganism and one can begin to see the foundation of Catholicism. Trying to discuss the Catholic religion from scripture is futile.


350 posted on 06/02/2014 3:51:03 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter
I am sure the Roman Catholic church does not view conjugal marital relations as 'sinful.'

Not quite, but if they followed some CFs then they would see it as sinful, or as denoting inferiority.

Seems 'till' and 'until' are used consistently throughout this Gospel.

I have myself studied this, and found that except in rare instances "heōs" ("And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." Matthew 1:25) indicates a terminus and a change, or allowing for that.

374 posted on 06/03/2014 5:52:41 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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