“In the Acts of the Apostles, even though James was Bishop/leader, it was Peter who got up and spoke to solve the questions at hand.”
Actually, when Peter spoke, it did not end the discussion. In fact, Paul & Barnabas continued to address the elders in Jerusalem, and then James wrapped it up:
“12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’—
18 things known from long ago.
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
“The NT mentions Bishops [One who oversees], Presbyters and Deacons.”
Actually, it mentions Elders and Deacons. For example, as Peter himself wrote:
“Verse 1
The elders which are among you I exhort - The word “elder” means, properly, “one who is old;” but it is frequently used in the New Testament as applicable to the officers of the church; probably because aged persons were at first commonly appointed to these offices. See Acts 11:30, note; Acts 14:23, note; Acts 15:2, note. There is evidently an allusion here to the fact that such persons were selected on account of their age, because in the following verses (1 Peter 5:4) the apostle addresses particularly the younger. It is worthy of remark, that he here refers only to one class of ministers. He does not speak of three “orders,” of “bishops, priests, and deacons;” and the evidence from the passage here is quite strong that there were no such orders in the churches of Asia Minor, to which this Epistle was directed. It is also worthy of remark, that the word “exhort” is here used. The language which Peter uses is not that of stern and arbitrary command; it is that of kind and mild Christian exhortation. Compare the notes at Philemon 1:8-9.
Who am also an elder - Greek: “a fellow-presbyter,” (sumpresbuteros) This word occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It means that he was a co-presbyter with them; and he makes this one of the grounds of his exhortation to them. He does not put it on the ground of his apostolical authority; or urge it because he was the vicegerent of Christ; or because he was the head of the church; or because he had any pre-eminence over others in any way. Would he have used this language if he had been the “head of the church” on earth? Would he if he supposed that the distinction between apostles and other ministers was to be perpetuated? Would he if he believed that there were to be distinct orders of clergy? The whole drift of this passage is adverse to such a supposition.”
“The notion that there were no Bishops and priests represents Protestant polemics.”
No. There were elders. There was a universal priesthood, but NO priests in Christianity! One has to go way outside of scripture, and reject the clear teaching of scripture, to create priests.
“Purgatory is in Scripture, the doctrine, although not the term, just you dismiss the notion of it because it does not fit the Protestant imputed notion of justification. The OT mentions fire as a cleansing and refining agent in several places [Sirach 2:5, Is 4:4; 6:6-7; Zech 13:9, and Mal 3:2-3]. 2 Macabees 2:46 mentions prayers for the dead. St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:15 speaks of a cleansing fire...”
Again, simply an incredible distortion of the clear meaning of scripture! 1 Cor 3 does NOT, in any way, suggest the existence of a place after death where we are cleansed by fire of our sins which were not totally forgiven in this life!
It says:
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.”
Thus every man’s ministry in building the church will be revealed as durable and valuable, or as a waste of time. There is no hint in here of personal sin, or unforgiven sin, etc. Paul is clearly writing about one’s MINISTRY being revealed by God’s just judgment.
“Because it shall be revealed by fire - The work, the edifice which shall be built on the true foundation shall be made known amidst the fire of the great Day. The “fire” which is here referred to, is doubtless that which shall attend the consummation of all things - the close of the world. That the world shall be destroyed by fire, and that the solemnities of the Judgment shall be ushered in by a universal conflagration, is fully and frequently revealed. See Isaiah 66:15; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; 2 Peter 3:7, 2 Peter 3:10-11. The burning fires of that Day, Paul says, shall reveal the character of every man‘s work, as fire sheds light on all around, and discloses the true nature of things.”
“St. Augustine talks of purgatorial fires in his reflection “Faith and Works” (413 AD) and The Enchiridion of Faith, Hope and Love {421 AD}, and also speaks of the doctrine of purgatory in The City of God [413-426 AD] in numerous places throughout that work.”
And on that Great Day, what Augustine did will be revealed by the fire. Did Augustine build with hay & stubble, or with stone and gold? In his case, I think the evidence shows there will be ample hay & stubble...
“St. Paul himself seems to have prayed for a deceased co-worker and disciple who helped him in missionary work for we read “May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus because he often gave me new heart and was not ashamed of my chains. But when he came to Rome, he promptly searched for me and found me. May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day. And you know very well the services he rendered in Ephesus’ (cf. 2 Timothy 1: 16-18). Two Catholic Commentaries that I have make the statement indicating that Onesiphorus is spoken of as if he were dead.”
This is a classic case of forcing theology into the text, regardless of how much it twists it! 2 Tim 4 merely says, “Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus.” That does not in any way say Onesiphorus was dead! Nor does this passage suggest he is dead:
“May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains. 17 On the contrary, when he was in Rome, he searched hard for me until he found me. 18 May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus.”
When someone builds a theology of Purgatory on such slender reeds, one doesn’t need to wait for that Great Day to see the value of what is being built!
I disagree with James White on a number of issues, but agree with him on this:
“Besides, there is only one result of the testing in purgatory: everyone ends up in heaven. But there are two results of this testing: there are those whose works remain, and they receive a reward. And there are those who works are burned up, but they are saved anyway. So could someone tell me how there is anyone in purgatory whose works, upon being tested, are shown to be gold, silver, and precious stones? Aren’t those the godly, the righteous, who receive a reward? But purgatory is for those who have in fact been judged, but, they are judged to have more temporal punishment for sin upon their souls than they have positive merit, so they must be cleansed and prepared through purgatory. So how does one get from a fire that tests works of Christian leaders, demonstrating who did what they did in life for the glory of Christ, to the fire of purgatory that should only be applied to those having temporal punishments of sin? You sure don’t get there by exegesis.”
What scripture teaches is that we are placed in Christ, and in Him we are counted righteous and whole:
“4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
Teaching that Jesus is inadequate, and that we are not forgiven our sins but need to be punished further after death before we can enter heaven is utterly hay and stubble. It is, in fact, total heresy - which Peter warned against. The Author of Purgatory is the Father of Lies, not the Holy Spirit!
Thank God that by the power of God, we are born again, new creations, born to live in Him:
“21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.”
Augustine was a man of God of profound spiritual depth. Not everyone is correct in every aspect of theology. His doctrines gave birth to the Reformation, as both Luther and Calvin did not invent their doctrines, but were merely the heirs of Augustine's teachings on grace and predestination.
Mr Rogers:
The NT uses the word “Episkopos” in numerous places. The word literally means “Overseer or One who Oversees” It is used in Acts 20:28, and in Saints Paul’s Letters [Phil 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:1-2; Titus 1:7] and in Saints Peters 1 Epistle [2:29].
The word Presbyters which means older man is word describing priests. The Presbyters were the ones who celebrated the Eucharist, anointed the sick, heard confessions, all priestly functions. No early Church Father disputes that only presbyters and Bishops could do certain ministries. Saint Paul himself describes his ministry of Christ as a “priestly service of the Gospel” [cf. Romans 15:16].
Your reading of Acts 15 doesn’t make sense to me. Peter got up and said to them.... and later on James states “Peter[Symeon] has described.....then in verse 22 we finally read, the Apostles and presbyters in agreement with the whole Church......
Peters role in this council is fundamental to it being received by the entire Church.
And no, one does not have to go out of Scripture to see priests, one needs to read the early Church Fathers who new the Apostles and read their writings to get insight to what the NT text truly meant, not what somebody thinks they meant starting 1,600 years later from the fact.