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To: sasportas
>>>Preterism is not historic Christianity. There is no evidence that Papias, Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement of Rome, Justin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, etc., believed this doctrine or had ever heard of it. <<<

I couldn't let that misconception slide. In a previous post I referenced partial-preterism from Eusebius. In this post I will present partial-preterist commentary from several early Church Fathers; and all can be verified online at the Christian Classics Ethereal Library (CCEL;) http://www.ccel.org. All books listed are according to the CCEL naming schemes.


This is Justin Martyr, AD 100-165:

   "And when the Spirit of prophecy speaks as predicting things that are to come to pass, He speaks in this way: 'For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.' And it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For out of Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the world of God; and we who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we might not lie or deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ." [The First Apology of Justin, Chapter XXXVIII, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 1]

      "And when you hear that we look for a kingdom, you suppose, without making any inquiry, that we speak of a human kingdom; whereas we speak of that which is with God, as appears also from the confession of their faith made by those who are charged with being Christians, though they know that death is the punishment awarded to him who so confesses. For if we looked for a human kingdom, we should also deny our Christ, that we might not be slain; and we should strive to escape detection, that we might obtain what we expect. But since our thoughts are not fixed on the present, we are not concerned when men cut us off; since also death is a debt which must at all events be paid." [The First Apology of Justin, Chapter XI, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 1]


Irenaeus, AD 130-200

   "If any one, however, advocating the cause of the Jews, does maintain that this new covenant consisted in the rearing of that temple which was built under Zerubbabel after the emigration to Babylon, and in the departure of the people from thence after the lapse of seventy years, let him know that the temple constructed of stones was indeed then rebuilt (for as yet that law was observed which had been made upon tables of stone), yet no new covenant was given, but they used the Mosaic law until the coming of the Lord; but from the Lord's advent, the new covenant which brings back peace, and the law which gives life, has gone forth over the whole earth, as the prophets said: "For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem ; and He shall rebuke many people; and they shall break down their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruninghooks, and they shall no longer learn to fight." [Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter XXXIV, Par 4, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1]

   1. … Even as Esaias saith, “The children of Jacob shall strike root, and Israel shall flourish, and the whole world shall be filled with his fruit.” The fruit, therefore, having been sown throughout all the world, she (Jerusalem) was deservedly forsaken, and those things which had formerly brought forth fruit abundantly were taken away; for from these, according to the flesh, were Christ and the apostles enabled to bring forth fruit. But now these are no longer useful for bringing forth fruit. For all things which have a beginning in time must of course have an end in time also.
2.Since, then, the law originated with Moses, it terminated with John as a necessary consequence. Christ had come to fulfil it: wherefore "the law and the prophets were" with them "until John." And therefore Jerusalem, taking its commencement from David, and fulfilling its own times, must have an end of legislation when the new covenant was revealed. " [Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter IV, Par 2, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1]

   "CHAP. VII.--RECAPITULATION OF THE FOREGOING ARGUMENT, SHOWING THAT ABRAHAM, THROUGH THE REVELATION OF THE WORD, KNEW THE FATHER, AND THE COMING OF THE SON OF GOD. FOR THIS CAUSE, HE REJOICED TO SEE THE DAY OF CHRIST, WHEN THE PROMISES MADE TO HIM SHOULD BE FULFILLED. THE FRUIT OF THIS REJOICING HAS FLOWED TO POSTERITY, VIZ., TO THOSE WHO ARE PARTAKERS IN THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, BUT NOT TO THE JEWS WHO REJECT THE WORD OF GOD. . . .
2. For not alone upon Abraham's account did He say these things, but also that He might point out how all who have known God from the beginning, and have foretold the advent of Christ, have received the revelation from the Son Himself; who also in the last times was made visible and passable, and spake with the human race, that He might from the stones raise up children unto Abraham, and fulfil the promise which God had given him, and that He might make his seed as the stars of heaven,(5) as John the Baptist says: "For God is able from these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."(6) Now, this Jesus did by drawing us off from the religion of stones, and bringing us over from hard and fruitless cogitations, and establishing in us a faith like to Abraham. As Paul does also testify, saying that we are children of Abraham because of the similarity of our faith, and the promise of inheritance." Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter VII, Title and Par 2, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1]"


Hegesippus (from Eusebius) on the martyrdom of James the Just:

   "James, the Lord's brother, succeeds to the government of the Church, in conjunction with the apostles. He has been universally called the Just, from the days of the Lord down to the present time . . . The aforesaid scribes and Pharisees accordingly set James on the summit of the temple, and cried aloud to him, and said: "O just one, whom we are all bound to obey, forasmuch as the people is in error, and follows Jesus the crucified, do thou tell us what is the door of Jesus, the crucified." And he answered with a loud voice: "Why ask ye me concerning Jesus the Son of man? He Himself sitteth in heaven, at the right hand of the Great Power, and is about to come on the clouds of heaven."" [The Church History of Eusebius, Book II, Chapter XXIII, Para 4, 12, 13, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Vol I]


Clement of Alexandria, AD 150-220:

   "And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfillment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said." [The Stromata, Or Miscellanies. Book I, Ch XXI, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 2]


Pseudo-Clement (attributed to Clement of Alexandria):

   "But our Master did not prophesy after this fashion; but, as I have already said, being a prophet by an inborn and every-flowing Spirit, and knowing all things at all times, He confidently set forth, plainly as I said before, sufferings, places, appointed times, manners, limits. Accordingly, therefore, prophesying concerning the temple, He said: "See ye these buildings? Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away [Matt. 24:3]; and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin [Matt. 24:34]. . . ." And in like manner He spoke in plain words the things that were straightway to happen, which we can now see with our eyes, in order that the accomplishment might be among those to whom the word was spoken. [The Clementine Homilies, Book III, Chapter XV, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 8]

This is a partial list. There are many more examples of early partial-preterism among the early Church Fathers.

Philip

24 posted on 05/14/2014 2:01:20 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau

“In this post I will present partial-preterist commentary from several early Church Fathers.”

Yeah, right, just like your fellow preterist, Hank Hanegraaf, “presented” at this debate on the dating of the book of Revelation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlT8S6KgOl4&list=PL0osYxTc0WTMkqnpnVM9UNefs-p5r6FNv

Hanegraaf’s “presentation,” to an unbiased observer, was laughable, I actually felt sorry for poor old Hank, all he had to offer was the typical preterist twisting of the scripture and history...like you just did.

Mark Hitchcock, on the other hand, presented the truth in a very sensible way. Hanagraaf didn’t even attempt to respond to 90% of Hitchcock’s arguments for the late date writing of Revelation. I suggest anyone confused by Freneau listen to the debate. The debate is quite lengthy, but well worth the time.

If Revelation was written in the very late part of the first century, which it was, then all this twisting of scripture and history, which you’ve just seen, is exposed for what it is, worthless and contrived.

I know, Hitchcock is a dispensationalist, which I’m not, however, he is a futurist and a premillennialist, which I am, I agree with him on those points. I think he did a great job debating Hanegraaf.


28 posted on 05/14/2014 4:42:16 PM PDT by sasportas
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