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To: boatbums; Iscool

Elaborate? I was quite concise.

“The infinite comes to us through the finite. If we go the other direction we end up with the same theology as Islam. And we make a false idol of Holy Scriptures. Bibliolatry. “

If you mistake the finite for the infinite, you have idolatry.

“Worshiping” is not really the criteria, although it can be involved. If you think God wrote Romans and not Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you are on your way to Bibliolatry. St. Paul is not God.

If you wish to see the lean towards this error, you can see it on this thread, in comments indicating the poster believes “the bible is really the words of God.” The distinction here is between God directly writing Holy Scripture - dictating the words - versus Paul, a human, writing the words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The dictation view is what Islam believes and why they view the Koran as an idol.

Is this what you believe about Holy Scripture, a dictation?


134 posted on 05/14/2014 1:34:04 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
If you wish to see the lean towards this error, you can see it on this thread, in comments indicating the poster believes “the bible is really the words of God.” The distinction here is between God directly writing Holy Scripture - dictating the words - versus Paul, a human, writing the words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

No error at all...

2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And they wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit...They wrote so accurately that the Apostle John rests your eternal security on what he wrote...

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Now, Jesus is speaking about you people that want to downplay the word of God, the scriptures and the authors who gave them to us thru the Holy Spirit:

2Co_2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Co_4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

The word of God, the bible, the scriptures, are the ONLY thing you have to fight off the Devil...Without those scriptures, you're sunk...

Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

There is nothing in your religion that is given to you guys to use to fight off the lies of the Devil...Absolutely nothing...Nothing except the written words of God that you are now trying to minimalize...

So who do you think your message of downplaying the scripture comes from??? And don't say God...I've already had my share of laughs this morning...

135 posted on 05/14/2014 5:33:15 AM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: D-fendr
If you mistake the finite for the infinite, you have idolatry.

Thanks for the admission...Eucharist anyone???

136 posted on 05/14/2014 5:34:29 AM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: D-fendr; Iscool
If you think God wrote Romans and not Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you are on your way to Bibliolatry. St. Paul is not God. If you wish to see the lean towards this error, you can see it on this thread, in comments indicating the poster believes “the bible is really the words of God.” The distinction here is between God directly writing Holy Scripture - dictating the words - versus Paul, a human, writing the words inspired by the Holy Spirit. The dictation view is what Islam believes and why they view the Koran as an idol. Is this what you believe about Holy Scripture, a dictation?

Are you familiar with the term "verbal plenary inspiration"? Do you know what the official Roman Catholic Church view is on the inspiration of Scripture? Here is one example from Inspiration of the Bible:

    The Catholic who wishes to make a correct analysis of Biblical inspiration must have before his eyes the following ecclesiastical documents: (a) "These books are held by the Church as sacred and canonical, not as having been composed by merely human labour and afterwards approved by her authority, nor merely because they contain revelation without error, but because, written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author, and have been transmitted to the Church as such." (Concil. Vatic., Sess. III, const. dogm, de Fide, cap. ii, in Denz., 1787). (b) "The Holy Ghost Himself, by His supernatural power, stirred up and impelled the Biblical writers to write, and assisted them while writing in such a manner that they conceived in their minds exactly, and determined to commit to writing faithfully, and render in exact language, with infallible truth, all that God commanded and nothing else; without that, God would not be the author of Scripture in its entirety" (Encycl. Provid. Deus, in Dena., 1952).

If you disagree with this view - and it sounds to me like you do - then that is something you must work out in your own mind. I DO believe in Verbal Plenary Inspiration of Scripture which is defined as:

    The word plenary means "full" or "complete". Therefore, plenary verbal inspiration asserts that God inspired the complete text(s) of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including both historical and doctrinal details. The word verbal affirms the idea that inspiration extends to the very words the writers chose. For example, in Acts 1:16 the Apostle Peter says "the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake" (KJV). Paul calls all scripture "God-breathed" in 2 Timothy 3:16 (referring to the Old Testament). Thus, the Holy Spirit guided the writers along (cf. 2 Peter 1:20-21) while allowing their own personalities and freedom to produce the Bible we have today. This view recognizes and asserts both the human and divine element within Scripture. This understanding has sometimes been compared and contrasted to the understanding of the two natures of Jesus. (http://www.theopedia.com/Inspiration_of_the_Bible)

The Catholic view doesn't sound all that different to me. That is why I would agree with someone who said, "the Bible is really the words of God" because it recognizes that, like St. Peter said, holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The wonderful thing about this is that God was STILL able to utilize each writer's personality and experience, while ensuring His revealed truths were expressed in a way that was both authoritative and powerful. God's word is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12) That doesn't sound "finite" to me.

Whether you see that as bibliolatry or not is not my concern. I will obey God.

153 posted on 05/14/2014 8:02:45 PM PDT by boatbums (quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus)
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