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To: mdmathis6
God the father rendered the punishment of death upon his sinless son

I don't know that I agree with that.

47 posted on 05/11/2014 6:21:14 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

2 Corinthians 5:21 says: “For our sake [God] made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

Obviously, the question and answer of sin and redemption from sin revolves around the death of Jesus and his resurrection. Since the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one and were always one, one more looks at Jesus as that sacrifice that cleanses his children from unrighteousness, making them acceptable in the sight of the Father. Christ died so that the wrath of the Father could be turned away from those humans who sought salvation, acknowledging their sin, believing in their hearts that the Father had raised the son from the grave.

The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life. Christ took the consequences of our sin upon himself, in full co-operation with the will of the Father. So is it proper to say God poured out his wrath upon the son, you ask? I guess it has become a kind of short hand answer over the years to the more accurate explanation above based on 2Corinthians 5:21. I firmly believe that to the extent that the fullness of the Godhead could have died “as a ransom for many” as the scripture says, it did so on the cross. Christ cried out as many a dying man has done so when his flesh is failing, in despair, expressing feelings of abandonment(My God why have you forsaken me)...yet he was not alone since Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all, one and all the same in that same consciousness, purpose and Commitment. Do you not think the Ark angels that support the throne of the Father did not note the pain of the Father? Were not the elements shaken, the light of day darkened, the earth quaking at the death of Christ? Was not the temple veil rent in two? Let us mourn God in flesh....now let us rejoice in the risen God in flesh. In death, Christ has taken death captive...why do all this? Because God had loved us with a wild raging love, this fallen race, ruled and scorned by demons and hated by Satan, so much so that he sent the Son, who the Bible states, willingly came for our sakes. Was he not God who could command legions of angels and by the power of God raise Lazarus from the grave? Yet was he also not a man who sweated great drops like blood at the thought of his death? Father,Son, and Spirit all at once were sharing Christ’s consciousness at the end when he said “It is finished”. What utter love compelled God to do this for us? We shall never be able to fathom it!

Perhaps it may be the epitome of accuracy to say that Jesus became sin for us so that the fullness of the Godhead, by pouring out the wrath for our sin upon itself/themself(yes..THEMSELF!... deliberate misspelling), might bring about the means for the redemption of our souls.

Or simply John 3:16-18!16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


48 posted on 05/12/2014 3:29:33 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (It was never Bush's fault...Spock's messing with red matter was what screwed us all up!)
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