Posted on 05/02/2014 12:28:06 AM PDT by GonzoII
We are going out making disciples of Jesus.
We’re warning them about the false teaching we encounter, which is what has the Catholic’s dander all up.
I don't know. No Catholic has been able to explain why the Catholic church does it.
His righteousness is credited to our account and the born again believer is as righteous in God's eyes as Jesus is because he is clothed int eh righteousness of Christ.
Forgiven means forgiven. It doesn't mean there's some debt left to pay off.
Why don't Catholics believe that Jesus death on the cross was enough to pay for their sins and why don't they believe God when He says...
Salvation by grace by believing
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 2:1-10And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
John 1:11-13 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Acts 16:27-31 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3:20-30 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 4:1-25 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.”
He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Security of the believer
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Nope, it's not in ANYONE'S Bible! Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire are Roman Catholic church invented terms to try to explain how someone could still be saved if they didn't get water baptized before they died. Thinking that water baptism (and using the "correct words") is what actually washes away sin, is the reason Catholics started baptizing babies - they believed at one time, though not anymore, that an unbaptized baby that died went to Limbo and not heaven. But babies cannot make an assent to faith in Christ and consent to water baptism, so all it really does in get the kid wet. Genuine faith for salvation must come later.
Getting back to that thief...he didn't have either kind of make believe baptism as he was hanging there next to Jesus. Baptism of Blood is a concept that a person who dies FOR his faith in Christ but before he can be legitimately baptized gets a holy excuse because he shed blood for Christ. It was his faith in Christ that is really what saves him and not his "I would have if these guys didn't kill me first" rationalization. A Baptism of Desire is where a person has believed in Christ but dies before he can be water baptized - though he fully meant to get it done.
The thief went to heaven with Christ because he BELIEVED in who Jesus said He was and he asked Christ to save him. He made no mention of "get me down from here and I swear I'll go get baptized", did he? No, he neither needed to be water baptized in order to be saved nor did he desire to be had he been able to - though he probably would have, we can only guess.
Getting back to your question, the "good" thief was saved by faith - not because he shed blood for Christ (he was dying for his own crimes) nor because he desired to be baptized to be saved. It's nowhere found in Scripture. We are saved by the grace of God through faith and not by what we do for God and we are baptized by the Holy Spirit when we receive Christ. It is how we are born again by the Spirit.
Thanks, Salvation. I hadn’t read the book, but I did read about her here: http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2013/10/maria-simma-visits-from-souls-in.html I enjoyed the messages she [allegedly] had from the souls, starting off with, “That priests and nuns should always wear their habits/clerics, in as much as possible.”
Eastern Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory, nor do they believe in any number of Roman novelties that were the source of the schism that occurred going on close to a thousand years ago. Sheol is not Purgatory and Gehinnom is not Purgatory, therefore Orthodox Jews do not believe in Purgatory.
Roman Catholics do believe themselves to have replaced Jews as God's chosen people, and accept the Deuterocanonical books whereas the Jews rejected them, therefore it's a peculiar thing to see a Roman Catholic making such citations in an attempt to support erroneous contentions.
Who is well-known for extensive evangelization and missionary work, NKP_Vet? Evangelists. Not Roman Catholics.
Jesus told his disciples to go out in the world and baptise.
He told them how to baptise. He said baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But protestants ignore this command of Jesus. Plenty of protestants don’t even feel it’s necessary to baptise anyone. So they ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ. In otherwords they seem to think they know more about Jesus than Jesus knew about himself. That is PROTESTism in a nutshell. Ignore whatever you want in the Bible, especially if those dreadful Catholics practice it, and pick and choose what you feel like doing, caring less what Jesus commanded. And these same folk seem to think that’s the way to heaven, by ignoring the words of Jesus Christ. A little clue for you. It don’t work that way.
“Who is well-known for extensive evangelization and missionary work, NKP_Vet? Evangelists. Not Roman Catholics”
Oh, I see. That’s why there’s a couple of thousand evangelicals worldwide and over a BILLION Catholics in every corner of the world. Keep up the good work. You might catch that heathen Catholics in the next 2,000 years or so. I needed a good laugh and you just gave me one.
We’re getting there. We are taking lessons on contacting and inviting.
Why does Catholicism have billions of adherents in the world, then? Gee, maybe we have been actively evangelizing!
THOUSANDS ARE JOINING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN UNITED STATES THIS EASTER VIGIL
That’s why Catholic South America is so moribund and ripe for evangelization by Protestants, same with Mexicans, I guess?
Where is this echo chamber in which some of you guys reside, where all manner of glorified wishful thinking regarding your religion is actually believed to be true? All the historical Catholic strongholds in the US are liberal, dying out, churches boarded up. Same for Catholic Europe, but at least the cathedrals are kept as museums of a sort but they’re quite empty.
Let me guess from whom you're taking lessons. Protestant Evangelicals.
Here’s the Eastern Orthodox version of purgatory. And those dummy Orthodox PRAY TO THE DEAD. Can you believe they would do something so “unscriptural”. Don’t they listen to Jimmy Swaggart and the good ole boys that know a lot more about Christianity than they do. Well I can’t believe they would be so arrogant!!
The Orthodox believe that the state of the soul in Hades can be affected by the love and prayers of the righteous up until the Last Judgment. For this reason the Church offers a special prayer for the dead on the third day, ninth day, fortieth day, and the one-year anniversary after the death of an Orthodox Christian. There are also several days throughout the year that are set aside for general commemoration of the departed, sometimes including nonbelievers. These days usually fall on a Saturday, since it was on a Saturday that Christ lay in the Tomb.
Over 10 years ago I attended a year long series on evangelization on the diocesan level. It’s just now getting down to the people’s level. Learning and praying.
The Orthodox Response To The Latin Doctrine Of Purgatory
http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx
the KJV wasn’t based on Luther’s writings, see the post I did on it earlier
You’re preaching to the choir. Orthodox believe praying to their dead gets them a reprieve on the last day. And yes this includes hell. What’s the most “radical” position? Catholic’s purgatory, where all are eventually going to heaven, or the Orthodox, where prayers can get you out of hell? I rest my case.
The Orthodox refer to your doctrine of Purgatory as “sophistry.” It is not a beleif of the early church, otherwise they’d share it with you. It’s just another Roman novelty.
“It’s just another Roman novelty”
So you agree with the Orthodox praying for their dead in hell, but not purgatory. Just wondering if all your “novelties” only referred to the Catholic Church.
While use of the word “Purgatory” (in Latin purgatorium) as a noun appeared perhaps only between 1160 and 1180, giving rise to the idea of purgatory as a place what Jacques Le Goff called the “birth” of purgatory), the Roman Catholic tradition of Purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief, found also in Judaism, which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification. The same practice appears in other traditions, such as the medieval Chinese Buddhist practice of making offerings on behalf of the dead, who are said to suffer numerous trials. Roman Catholic belief in Purgatory is based, among other reasons, on the previous Jewish practice of prayer for the dead, a practice that presupposes that the dead are thereby assisted between death and their entry into their final abode. It is also based on various passages of Scripture and on the Sacred Tradition of the Church.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.