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To: Faith Presses On
>>>here are four articles about it: “Bible says faith and works needed for salvation” (EWTN), “Doesn’t John 3:16 clearly indicate that faith alone is necessary for salvation?

Not in the context you have been using in our discussion. Christians throw the "faith" word around all the time; but I have rarely met anyone who has tried to understand it. For example, John 3:16 reads:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 KJV)

Jesus also said:

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." (John 7:38 KJV)

Jesus was referring to those who received the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Do you know anyone like that? How about this verse:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12 KJV)

Do you know anyone who has done greater works than Jesus? I don't.

And certainly you recall that Jesus said that if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed you can move mountains (Mat 17:20.) Have you seen anyone moving any mountains lately?

Therefore, we must explore other possible avenues of justification, because, obviously, no one has faith even as a grain of mustard seed. LOL!

Well, Jesus gave us other avenues. For example, he said,

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12 KJV)

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 KJV)

So, all you have to do is love others and you have fulfilled his commandments; and, as aforementioned, you have also fulfilled all the law. And, guess what? If you follow his commandments, and do the works required by them (e.g., love your neighbors,) aren't you showing your faith in Him? And recall that James asked this question,

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (Jam 2:14 KJV)

And after a explaining the reason for his question, James summarizes with this:

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (Jam 2:24 KJV)

As explained above, if we were required to be justified by faith, only, none of us would be saved; because none of us have any measurable, stand-alone faith. But, as James explained, when we do good works, we have shown our faith:

"…shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (Jam 2:18 KJV)

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (Jam 2:26 KJV)

All the philosophical debate about "faith," since the beginning of time, cannot explain away verses like the following from Jesus and his apostles:

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Mat 16:27 KJV)

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." (Tit 3:8 KJV)

"And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:" (Heb 10:24 KJV)

"And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:" (1 Pet 1:17 KJV)

"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous." (1 Jn 3:12 KJV)

"I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first." (Rev 2:19 KJV)

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." (Rev 22:12 KJV)

Also recall these verses about Abraham and the promises:

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:29 KJV)

"… Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39 KJV)


>>>(Catholic.org?), “Is salvation by faith alone, or faith plus works?” (gotquestions.org) and “Are we saved by faith or do we need works too?” (carm.org).<<<

I don't have the time to research those sites. If you take the time to quote from them, I will be glad to respond.


>>>Also consider, too, that Paul wrote that he became like a Jew, though no longer under the law as he was, and also like a Gentile, so he could “by all means save some.” <<<

I'm not sure how that fits the context of our discussion.


>>>Jesus commanded that we “go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations.”<<<

When Jesus sent forth his disciples, he sent them with this understanding:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18 KJV)

Do you know any of those new "disciples?" Do you know any real faith healers? I don't. LOL!


>>>He also said Christians were to be salt and light in the world. But if people can be all right with God without Jesus, why would Jesus have said those things?<<<

I believe that if you love your neighbour, you have Jesus in your heart, whether you know his name, or not.

Philip

373 posted on 05/05/2014 11:11:39 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau

I don’t have time to reply to all of this this evening, but I will say that your comments on faith here aren’t biblical and apparently call Jesus a liar. Throughout the four Gospels Jesus spoke of faith over and over again, including to people about the faith they had or didn’t have. People were healed and brought back from the dead on the basis of faith. And people have also been martyred on the basis of faith, and suffered or been threatened with it because of faith. Hebrews 11 talks all about faith. The only thing James talks about is that if one *says* he has faith, what he does should display his faith. The Old Testament commandment not to take the Lord’s name in vain is related to this. It doesn’t just mean using His name as a swear word, but actually means lifting up His name in an unworthy manner. If you go around telling people you’re a Christian while having an affair, embezzling, or being greedy, your works don’t match your profession of faith. I must stop here for now, but I wonder from (Cont’d)


381 posted on 05/06/2014 8:29:00 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: PhilipFreneau

(cont’d) what you write, what you believe about the need for absolute surrender to the Lord, and about witnessing and evangelism.


382 posted on 05/06/2014 8:31:06 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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