You wrote:>>> That contradicts a lot of Catholic doctrine. And going back to posts 306 and 305, this discussion was about Gentiles who didn’t so much as have the law, not about those who have been saved.<<<
That is what I intended, but somehow it got sidetracked into an esoteric discussion of what is and is not love, and unrelated scripture about the works of the laws of Moses. Anyway, if you look at my original post, it contained this passage:
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)" (Rom 2:12-15 KJV)
That statement has nothing to do with works of the laws of Moses, but (what I call) the law of the Lord. Paul indicated the Gentiles that have the law of the Lord written in their hearts are justified, even though they may have never heard of the Lord. Or, in other words, he wrote that it is not the hearers of the law that are justified, but the doers. Jesus put it this way:
"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things." (Mat 12:35 KJV)
And for those who demonstrate pretense of love, he stated:
"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." (Mat 15:8 KJV)
I believe there is enough evidence in the scriptures to prove that people with good hearts--even those who have never heard of Jesus--will be saved by their works. After all, everyone is judged according to their works. Do you believe that?
Philip
I’ll reply on this soon. I didn’t have time to today.
The first thing I have to say is that it does trouble me greatly that you talk of part of this discussion as sidetracking and going into esoteric points. It is nothing of the sort. It all relates directly to salvation, and if there really is a Heaven and a Hell and all that the Bible says is true, then this is all that matters, and that’s the message that Jesus Himself preached to people.
We also have to be very careful to let God speak to us. Our rebellious natures can deceive us. What the Lord says is true is reality, and we are infinitely better off to accept that and whatever He says. We need to be getting closer all the time to His will, and to ask Him to change us however we need to be changed. (cont’d)