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Pontius Pilate should have listened to his wife
Catholic Herald ^ | April 14, 2014 | FR ALEXANDER LUCIE-SMITH

Posted on 04/14/2014 2:40:46 PM PDT by NYer

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To: Farmer Dean

I think it is certain that God had a plan & perhaps it was necessary to complicate it in such a way as to not enable men to undo that plan.


21 posted on 04/14/2014 3:59:38 PM PDT by oldtech
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To: oldtech

Satan must have gone crazy when he realized what had happened.


22 posted on 04/14/2014 4:04:43 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

I also think that the reason why the wife’s remarks to Pilate were included was they were to remind us of another wife who tempted her husband. That woman was tempted by the Devil via the snake. I believe that the dream was a temptation given by the Devil in an attempt to ruin God’s plan of salvation.

Not a Bible scholar, but that’s how I see it.


23 posted on 04/14/2014 4:04:45 PM PDT by piusv
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To: NYer

Jesus knew that he had to die. I believe that Pilate’s decision was given to him by the God he did not recognize.


24 posted on 04/14/2014 4:11:16 PM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: piusv
I totally disagree. If Pilate had listened to her then we would not have been redeemed. I suspect that her dream was not of God.

All of this is hypothesis contrary to fact, but let's imagine that Pilate listens to his wife, and releases Jesus for the Passover, without providing the crowd the choice of Barabbas. Is God thereby checkmated, and our redemption lost?

God is GOD, and Satan is a pimp (in the Corleonean sense of the term). Perhaps the Temple leaders take Jesus and stone Him for blasphemy; perhaps Herod has Him beheaded; perhaps the Zealots turn on Him and stab him to death a la Julius Caesar. But we can be certain of two things: Jesus would have been killed that day because God had decreed it from before the foundation of the world, and the method would have also been prophesied, as the effects of the crucifixion method were in Psalm 22, because God would have known beforehand that Pilate would listen to his wife and not be a participant in the death of Christ.

The dream could well have come from God, since God, knowing Pilate would not listen, makes Himself guiltless. But again, all this is hypothetical speculation: God would already have had everything else in place if the crucifixion were not to take place, because God would have known that as well.

25 posted on 04/14/2014 4:31:36 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: editor-surveyor
No, he most definitely should have done exactly what he did.

Had he not done everything as he did, our savior would not have fulfilled the Passover, and we would be out of luck.


So I'm curious: Does that logic apply to Judas Iscariot as well?
26 posted on 04/14/2014 5:01:44 PM PDT by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: NYer

It is believed that Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. In Jewish law, a woman could not testify and testimony could only be made for what one witnessed. Further, the witness was required to be present.

To a Jew, the idea that her plea came from a woman, was sent by messenger and was based on a dream emphasized in a very dramatic way that the proceeding was void of any rational process.


27 posted on 04/14/2014 5:17:55 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: PAR35
Be careful. Jesus himself says that the one who delivered him to Pilate is "guilty of the greater sin," and elsewhere that it would have been better for Judas had Judas not even been born. God doesn't need sins to do good things (like redeeming us), although he is able to turn sins into good things anyway.

Since the Blood of Christ has infinite merit, the Blood Jesus shed in his circumcision was sufficient to redeem all mankind. Of course, God knows all things, and so always knew that the Cross would happen. But that doesn't make crucifying an innocent man any less wrong.

28 posted on 04/14/2014 5:44:11 PM PDT by Campion
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To: NYer

Julius Caesar’s wife Portia had a similar experience, dreaming that her husband would be assassinated and begging him not to go to the Senate on the Ides of March.

I wonder how many other stories there are of upper class Roman women having prophetic dreams. Probably as many stories of them as there were lower class women, but only the upper class were deemed worthy of being recorded. Publishing wasn’t cheap back in the day.


29 posted on 04/14/2014 6:02:05 PM PDT by angryoldfatman
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To: Campion
God knows all things, and so always knew that the Cross would happen.

He doesn't just know all things, he ordains all things.

"280 Creation is the foundation of "all God's saving plans," the "beginning of the history of salvation"117 that culminates in Christ. Conversely, the mystery of Christ casts conclusive light on the mystery of creation and reveals the end for which "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth": from the beginning, God envisaged the glory of the new creation in Christ."

303 The witness of Scripture is unanimous that the solicitude of divine providence is concrete and immediate; God cares for all, from the least things to the great events of the world and its history. the sacred books powerfully affirm God's absolute sovereignty over the course of events: "Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases."162 and so it is with Christ, "who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens".163 As the book of Proverbs states: "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will be established."164

304 And so we see the Holy Spirit, the principal author of Sacred Scripture, often attributing actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a "primitive mode of speech", but a profound way of recalling God's primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world,165 and so of educating his people to trust in him. the prayer of the Psalms is the great school of this trust.166

312 In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: "It was not you", said Joseph to his brothers, "who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive."178 From the greatest moral evil ever committed - the rejection and murder of God's only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that "abounded all the more",179 brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P19.HTM

30 posted on 04/14/2014 6:12:07 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: NYer

And Judas should not have betrayed Him?

The way Jesus’ trial and execution went down were, and not at all coincidentally, just the way it was prophesied. Everything happened exactly how God knew it would, and He makes all things work together for those who love Him.

What would have changed had Pilate acted differently? What could he have done differently?


31 posted on 04/14/2014 6:20:21 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (Vote Democrat. Once you're OK with killing babies the rest is easy. <BCC><)
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To: Farmer Dean

I can imagine Satan on the first Easter singing “Sunday Morning Coming Down” with some twists in the lyrics.


32 posted on 04/14/2014 6:29:00 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (Vote Democrat. Once you're OK with killing babies the rest is easy. <BCC><)
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To: Salvation
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33 posted on 04/14/2014 7:28:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: piusv

Or what about Herodias? She had no faith at all, only desiring revenge.


34 posted on 04/14/2014 7:30:30 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
Did Luke and Mark also come across this verse but decide not to include it, not seeing its purpose

Decided to stop reading at this point.

35 posted on 04/14/2014 7:31:50 PM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Idaho_Cowboy

Yes it does. When Yehova plans, all things fall in place.

If you would read the gospels, Yeshua knew exactly what Judas was going to do, and when he was going to do it. He told him to do it quickly, lest he lose his motivation.


36 posted on 04/14/2014 8:03:42 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

The “first easter” was more than 2000 years before Yeshua was born. Easter has zilch to do with Yeshua nor his resurrection. We have Passover for that purpose, and it is a celebration of his death, not his resurrection.

As Paul so clearly stated, “as often as you break this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord’s death till he comes.”


37 posted on 04/14/2014 8:10:36 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

True that. Misnomer about Resurrection Sunday.

He is risen. He is alive.

I, we, proclaim His death (as payment for our sins) until he comes.

It is finished!(tetelestai) As an artist finished a work of art, or as a servant completed his duties.

1. Scripture concerning the Christ fulfilled
2. Our penalty satisfied in the law
3. The spotless Lamb of God sacrificed
4. Our debt (wages of sin) paid in full
5. The battle cry of the VICTOR: “It is finished!”

WOW! Our God is an awesome God.


38 posted on 04/14/2014 8:39:33 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (Vote Democrat. Once you're OK with killing babies the rest is easy. <BCC><)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

The law is not about penalty, it is “instruction in righteousness.”

That is why only “doers of the law will be justified.” It is the righteousness that we need to endure in faith.

“Be ye perfect as I am perfect.”


39 posted on 04/14/2014 9:22:50 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: piusv
I totally disagree. If Pilate had listened to her then we would not have been redeemed. I suspect that her dream was not of God.

I'm pretty sure God had things under control.
40 posted on 04/15/2014 7:15:24 AM PDT by Old Yeller (In Latin, the word sinister means left. Which is appropriate for left-wingers.)
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