Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Mad Dawg
Aw, come on, friend! Pick one. You know this tactic as well as I. Attack across a broad front so that a book must be written in reply.

This is not a tactic, but substantiated examples of what is seen in Catholicism without censure, including by popes. If i do not example what i am protesting, then it has little impact. And this extra and un Scriptural hyper exaltation is a broad front. Even if not all official doctrine, Ja. 2:18 teaches that what we do constitutes the evidence of what we believe.

The hermeneutic is in the Chalcedonian definition. And ONE thing that means is that we can't do Xtological theology in sound bites anymore ... and so we can't do Mariology that way either.

Which the laity, and even clerics who hold it is impossible to honor Mary to excess (what if we said that about Paul?) understand.

If he REALLY was a baby, then he, in some sense, is owed milk, and, in another, owes gratitude to her who provided it.

That is frankly absurd and unintentional blasphemy. The creator is not indebted to any of His creation. God needs nothing and no one, (Acts 17:25) and He did not need Mary as His vessel, but she owes Christ her soul mind and breath. You would have to say that Christ owes believers gratitude for supplying the instruments to spread His word, when in reality we owe Him for the privilege of serving Him, which saints will do in glory, but those in Hell are deprived from doing.

But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee. (1 Chronicles 29:14)

. But he is one and not two, so Mary fed God, and heart the beat of God's heart.

God chose to use mortals to reveal Himself, and what Mary provided was nothing more than what God provided her, and prepared her to be His instrument.

And "God bearer" can be somewhat tolerable in theological context, but "mother of God" is the popular title which does convey ontologically oneness, as in Divinity birthing Divinity and is not the language of Scripture, which even clarifies that from Israel " as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen," (Romans 9:5) while "mother of God conveys a pagan concept (even Mormonism). What Ratzinger said as concerns “Co-redemptrix” applies here insofar as Scripture is concerned, that "the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings”

He went on to say that, “Everything comes from Him [Christ], as their Latter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way. “For matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language” - God and the world: believing and living in our time, by Pope Benedict XVI, p. 306

Of course, the so-called "Fathers also began going beyond what Scripture said also.

I think we do better to stick with "really," "truly," and "substantially," in trying to depict what Catholics teach about the Eucharist. "Actually" is a very complicated word

What you stated is really, truly, actually the case. And I actually truly really read from a RC blog that "Real Presence" was an Anglican word to cover up its differences, but was co-opted by Rome. The church is to be the "Real Presence" to the world, and was the body of Christ in 1Cor. 11:17-34.

210 posted on 04/01/2014 7:31:17 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies ]


To: daniel1212
Who has ever said that Mary had a single thing not given to her? Certainly not me. And the Immaculate Conception is described as a result of a singular grace in the defining document.

I do not think it is any more blasphemous to say IHS owed thanks to Mary than it is to say He suffered, was circumcised, was presented in the temple, was baptized with sinners. This is why I say the real difference is over the Incarnation.

I do not find the word “actual” in serious Eucharistic language. I don't think it means the same thing as real or substantial. (I don't much like ‘real’, but I can work with it.) In matters of this degree of technicality words get important.

Even “truly” has overtones (in English and Hebrew) mostly of reliability.

Remember Quix? When I got him to slow down long enough to get a glimmer of what we mean by “substantially”, he was almost angry to find how close it was to what he means by “spiritually.” I knew more philosophical work needed to be done, but at least we were FINALLY moving away from gristle and blood clots.

215 posted on 04/01/2014 10:32:13 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies ]

To: daniel1212

As to Mary suffering for the sins of man, all the baptized are offered the same opportunity because we are baptized into Christ. There is nothing remarkable there. It’s all over Paul.


216 posted on 04/01/2014 10:36:49 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson