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To: redleghunter
You stay out of a lot of trouble by taking that literal-grammatical approach.

I don't think the ECF would have called it that. Irenaeus eschatological beliefs, for instance, were taught him by Polycarp, who in turn was taught by the apostle John...who wrote the Revelation. His strong Rev. 20 based belief in a future earthly millennium would thus have come down to him (via Polycarp) from John himself. His futurist post-trib premillennialism, he considered apostolic.

There is not the slightest hint in his writings that he had ever heard of any such thing as Preterism, Amillennialism, or Postmillennialism...reason being it hadn't been invented yet. This stuff Freneau pushes around here, certainly not.

101 posted on 03/15/2014 5:16:19 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas
There is not the slightest hint in his writings that he had ever heard of any such thing as Preterism, Amillennialism, or Postmillennialism...reason being it hadn't been invented yet.

I forgot to include Pretrib Dispensationalism, Irenaeus wouldn't have heard of it either, John Darby invented it some 1700 years later.

102 posted on 03/15/2014 5:24:00 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

My point was they took a literal futurist approach.


104 posted on 03/15/2014 5:54:38 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: sasportas
>>>I don't think the ECF would have called it that. Irenaeus eschatological beliefs, for instance, were taught him by Polycarp, who in turn was taught by the apostle John...who wrote the Revelation. His strong Rev. 20 based belief in a future earthly millennium would thus have come down to him (via Polycarp) from John himself. His futurist post-trib premillennialism, he considered apostolic.<<<

That is more myth than fact. Irenaeus was born about AD 120, and his first book was nearly a century removed from John: and that is assuming the fellow running around in the latter part of the first century was actually John, and not a false apostle. Polycarp was not born until about 69 AD. If John was resurrected in 70 AD, as Christ promised, Polycarp could not possibly have met him.

There are other things to consider. For example, this is Caius:

"As to the epistles of Paul, again, to those who will understand the matter, they indicate of themselves what they are, and from what place or with what object they were directed. He wrote first of all, and at considerable length, to the Corinthians, to check the schism of heresy; and then to the Galatians, to forbid circumcision; and then to the Romans on the rule of the Old Testament Scriptures, and also to show them that Christ is the first object in these;—which it is needful for us to discuss severally, as the blessed Apostle Paul, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name, in this order: the first to the Corinthians, the second to the Ephesians, the third to the Philippians, the fourth to the Colossians, the fifth to the Galatians, the sixth to the Thessalonians, the seventh to the Romans. Moreover, though he writes twice to the Corinthians and Thessalonians for their correction, it is yet shown—i.e., by this sevenfold writing— that there is one Church spread abroad through the whole world. And John too, indeed, in the Apocalypse, although he writes only to seven churches, yet addresses all." [Caius, Canon Muratorianus, 3, p 1454]

Caius is clear that Paul wrote his epistles after John wrote the Revelation. Paul supposedly was beheaded by Nero in 68 A.D. Therefore, if Caius is correct, the date of the Revelation must be pushed back some years prior to Nero's death; otherwise one would have to assume Paul wrote to all those churches in a very short time. Note that Caius only assumes there were more than seven churches at the time John wrote the Revelation.

There are lots of references pointing to a pre-70 A.D. date for the Revelation. The history for a post-70 A.D. date is virtually non-existant.

Philip

108 posted on 03/15/2014 7:04:28 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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