Posted on 03/14/2014 4:23:52 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
The Thousand Year Reign of Christ on Earth: Is it Biblical?
This is the passage in question:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:4-6 KJV)
There are two events noticeably absent from the passage:
1) There is no mention of a reign on earth of any kind.
2) There is no time limit placed on Christ's reign: it only states that those who are resurrected reign with Christ for "1000 years."
The first item should be apparent from some of Jesus' last words on earth:
"My kingdom is not of this world…" (John 18:36 KJV).
… and from some of his first words after his ascension, where he is speaking from his throne:
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Rev 3:21 KJV)
But there are numerous other indicators, for example:
"The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all." (Ps 103:19 KJV)
"The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven…" (Ps 11:4 KJV)
"Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" (Isa 66:1 KJV)
"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:" (Heb 9:24 KJV)
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool." (Heb 10:12-13 KJV)
"Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (1 Pet 3:22 KJV)
Many of those same items also explain the second item: that Christ reigns forever. But there are many more:
"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever… " (Isa 9:7 KJV)
"Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah." (Ps 89:4 KJV)
"His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven." (Ps 89:29 KJV)
"His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah." (Ps 89:36-37 KJV)
"The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever." (Pro 29:14 KJV)
So, it should be apparent that Christ reigns forever from his throne in heaven. But what is the disposition of those resurrected during the first resurrection? Paul explains it this way:
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Th 4:16-18 KJV)
According to Paul, those of the first resurrection are not coming back to earth. Therefore, it is safe to conclude that if there is a limited "1000 year reign" by Christ and his saints on this earth, they will reign from heaven, and not from earthly thrones and/or habitats.
I believe the more logical conclusion is that Christ reigns over the earth from his throne in heaven, forever; and those of the first resurrection reign with him, as servants and priests, either forever (they are with Him forever,) or until their services are no longer needed (for example, until Satan is defeated.)
Philip
If you are implying why Paul never mentioned them, look at the context. It appears he was trying to comfort those who had already lost loved ones for Christ. Mentioning those who were to be cast into a lake of fire would have been inappropriate, in my opinion.
The first resurrection in Daniel 12 is more detailed:
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan 12:1-2 KJV)
Note that only Daniel's people (Israel) are resurrected; and not all, but "many." That implies a partial resurrection of the children of Israel, which fits the "two resurrection" notion of a first and second resurrection.
Philip
The rule by Christ and his saints on earth after the 2nd coming is presupposed in the Bible. In the book of Daniel, we see it prophesied in such passages as the following:
Daniel 2 pictures a succession of earthly kingdoms, the last one crushed by a stone from heaven, after which it becomes a great “mountain” (“mountain” is prophetic scripture signifies a kingdom, or world empire) filling the whole earth. The “stone” from heaven crushing the last kingdom, the kingdom of antichrist, is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ -
Dan. 2:35, the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Daniel 7 also pictures a succession of earthly kingdoms, the last one cast down and repossessed by the saints of the most High. The last earthly kingdom, that of the “beast” or the antichrist, is taken over by the saints.
Dan. 7:18, But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan. 7:22, Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan. 7:27, And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High
In Rev. 20, that those of the first resurrection are the ones who rule on earth with Christ should be presupposed by Bible believers - such passages as these above from Daniel, for example. It is only those influenced by some variation of philosophic Gnosticism that see otherwise.
I agree the saints will judge the nations (for example, the disciples judge the 12 tribes;) but there is no reference, whatsoever, that states they will judge from the earth at any time. Rather, all references point to their presence with the Lord on heavenly mount Sion, in new Jerusalem. They serve as the foundations for both the holy temple and the beloved city, New Jerusalem.
>>>In the book of Daniel, we see it prophesied in such passages as the following: Daniel 2 pictures a succession of earthly kingdoms, the last one crushed by a stone from heaven, after which it becomes a great “mountain” (“mountain” is prophetic scripture signifies a kingdom, or world empire) filling the whole earth. The “stone” from heaven crushing the last kingdom, the kingdom of antichrist, is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ <<<
>>>Dan. 2:35, the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.<<<
I have a different interpretation of the four kingdoms in Daniel 2 and 7. I believe they were the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Macedo-Grecian, and the Roman empires. Daniel clearly stated the first was Nebuchadnezzar's:
"Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold." (Dan 2:37-38 KJV)
The succession of world-dominating kingdoms leads to the other three. The kingdom mentioned in the following verse is the Kingdom of God (or Heaven,) which overrules all other kingdoms:
"And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan 7:14 KJV)
That kingdom has existed since (at least) the days of John the Baptist:
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Mat 11:12 KJV)
Jesus (and by implication, his saints) took over the kingdom after his resurrection (Acts 2.) He clearly stated he would not eat again until he was in the kingdom (Luke 22:15-16,) and he ate with his disciples after his resurrection (Luke 24:41-43,) implying he was in his kingdom at that time.
>>>In Rev. 20, that those of the first resurrection are the ones who rule on earth with Christ should be presupposed by Bible believers - such passages as these above from Daniel, for example.<<<
That is partly correct. For example, we know that the twelve disciples sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes, as Jesus promised. We also know they were resurrected before the end of their own generation, as Jesus also promised. But there is no mention of their return to earth, whatsoever. Also, to claim that "bible believers" of today are "presupposed" for anything other than the final judgement requires a fantastic stretch of the imagination.
>>>It is only those influenced by some variation of philosophic Gnosticism that see otherwise.<<<
You are not trying to poison the well, are you?
Philip
>>>Not all scripture is meant to be taken literally. Here is an example:
Psalm 50:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
It does not mean God owns the cattle on exactly one thousand hill. It means he owns all of creation.<<<
Exactly! Thanks.
BTW, that last argument was used by John Otis in his excellent 28-part seminar found on Youtube; but accessed sequentially (without the hassle of Youtube) on his website at:
http://triumphantpublications.com/videos.html
He has a well-organized study guide available for a nominal fee. I found it useful for keeping up; but it is not required. John is a Reformed Presbyterian minister. We don’t see eye-to-eye on everything, but I highly recommend his seminar.
Philip
A person does not live forever on Earth — at least not on this earth.
The passage I commented on was “they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”. This passage said nothing about living forever. There are no 1000 year periods in heaven because there is no time therefore the passage pertains to time / space ... likely Earth.
I am not sure how one interprets that passage as to NOT refer to a period of time on Earth. But as we all know there is no right or wrong way to interpret Revelations. Just lots of opinions. :-) Cheers
>>>What about the other thousand years?<<<
I agree with SeahawkFan in #18 that a thousand years is just a representative number for long time period, in contrast with all the short time periods specifically mentioned in other parts of the Revelation: e.g. five months; forty and two months; one thousand two hundred and three score days; ten days; and three days and a half. It does seem to be the only time period mentioned where there is not a lot of detail.
LOL! I believe it was John Otis who commented on this verse…
“And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.” (Jud 15:16 KJV)
…with, “Can we be certain it was not 999 men?”
Or, on this one…
“Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;” (Deu 7:9 KJV)
…with, “What about the 1001st generation?”
Philip
Yes, He reigns on earth a thousand years, and with a rod of iron.
It will take that much time to sanctify the human race after the Great Tribulation.
You really don’t want the human race to rule all things in its present state, do you?
“It doesn’t say Jerusalem. That is a misnomer, invented out of thin air.”
“The “breadth of the earth” means the entire earth, according to a dictionary. The camp of the saints is on heavenly mount Sion, as follows:”
Hmm, if the “beloved city” is not Jerusalem, but heavenly Jerusalem, then how do the armies of Gog and Magog go across the entire earth to get to heaven? Is it possible for men to walk to heaven? They can walk to Jerusalem, which makes it the only sensible interpretation, unless you can reconcile that.
“You are partly correct in that Satan is coming after God’s people; but they are in the Church, not in Jerusalem.”
How is he going to get to them if they are already permanently in Heaven with Jesus as you say? By the time of those verses, Satan is on earth, and verse 9 says “fire came down from Heaven and devoured them”. If fire came down from Heaven, then they couldn’t be in Heaven, but were obviously on earth. They were gathered from the four corners of the earth, they traveled across the earth, and surrounded God’s beloved city. There is no mention of any teleportation, flying, or ladders to Heaven in any of those verses.
But would you be the one to redirect those men who seek the truth as in "let him who hath understanding..." (Rev 13:18).
Those who have understanding are searching and refining their understanding.
Are you at that point in your understanding that you consider yourself qualified to direct them?
>>>I am not sure how one interprets that passage as to NOT refer to a period of time on Earth. But as we all know there is no right or wrong way to interpret Revelations. Just lots of opinions. :-) Cheers<<<
LOL! There is a massive Evangelical Book Industry that will smear you if you keep that up. Think what would happen to the sales of the Antichrist-Of-The-Month Book Clubs if people found out the Antichrist is a myth that should have died with Nero in 68 A.D.
Philip
Just out of curiosity, what do you do with this:
Rev 21: 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
and this:
Rev 22: 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Our destiny is not heaven, but the new earth, Paradise restored.
Those who think everything in the Bible should be read literally need to read Song of Solomon. Here is just one example (there can be no doubt as to what the woman is referring):
16 Awake, north wind,
and come, south wind!
Blow on my garden,
that its fragrance may spread everywhere.
Let my beloved come into his garden
and taste its choice fruits.
That verse does not state it explicitly, but these do:
Zachariah 1:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquakea in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
>>>Are you at that point in your understanding that you consider yourself qualified to direct them?<<<
I will answer that question for you, when you answer this one:
How many Freepers have you asked that question, before today?
Philip
“It never says they come to earth; it only implies that they “fight” those on earth. Recall that Christ used the Roman armies to carry out his judgement on Jerusalem and Israel. He also used the armies of Babylon to carry out his judgement in the old testament; as well as the Assyrian armies against Egypt.”
These verses clearly say Christ himself slays His enemies, who are on earth, with the two-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth. The armies of Heaven are following him, and the Beast, and the kings of the earth gathered to fight Christ and His army. The birds are called to feast on the corpses, so this is obviously a real battle, where birds live, on earth. I can’t see how anyone can interpret it another way unless they just really don’t want to believe what the text says.
“I understand what you are implying, but I cannot find that in the scripture. If it was true, there should be multiple references.”
There are! How many verses do you need about the Second Coming in order to believe He is actually coming back?
” Revelation 1:7 ESV
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. “
” Hebrews 9:28 ESV
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. “
” Joel 3:1-2
“For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land, “
” Acts 1:9-11 ESV
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” “
If Jesus wasn’t coming back, why do all the verses say He is?
“Even the “Sword” doesn’t fit: it comes out of the Lord’s mouth.”
Yes, that is symbolic, obviously, but 2 Thessalonians has a parallel passage that gives us more information:
“2 Thessalonians 2:8 ESV
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.”
In one verse, the beast is killed with the two edged sword proceeding from Christ’s mouth, and in the other the lawless one is killed with the breath of His mouth. I think they are both poetic ways of saying that Christ will slay His enemies with a word, as He has the power of God.
Paul does not state where they go after they meet the Lord in the air, he simply states "... to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. "
This passage has no indication whatsoever about where they go after meeting in the air, only that they will remain together forever.
>>>Yes, He reigns on earth a thousand years, and with a rod of iron.<<<
Where does it say the Lord reigns from earth? There are literally dozens of verses that say or imply otherwise.
>>>It will take that much time to sanctify the human race after the Great Tribulation.<<<
The great tribulation occurred between 66 and 70 AD in the city of Jerusalem, exactly in the generation that Jesus said it would.
Philip
Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
And then understand it from this Passage in Isaiah :
Iaiah 63: 1Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? “It is I, proclaiming victory, mighty to save.”
2 Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?
3“I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.
4 It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm achieved salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me.
6 I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground.”
Jesus tramples the peoples of the Earth by himself, on the earth!
So which are you, Amillennialist or Postmillennialist?
How about PanMillenialist: It will all pan out in the end.... ;-)
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