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To: PhilipFreneau
The following verse explains that Paul is talking about those, like himself, who received the firstfruits of the Spirit: "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Rom 8:22-23)

So Paul was using the 'royal we'? Paul and the Holy Spirit were only talking about the people at the time the Epistle was written? You have a doctrine in search of a text to support it. Finding none, whatever text in hand is wrenched and bent and molded to fit the doctrine you want to support. No thanks Phil, that's no better than the Catholics using a snippet of scripture to validate their traditions. This teaching would have been blasted by Paul himself. Sure you have never been to Galatia. Your teachings sure have.

371 posted on 03/14/2014 9:28:37 AM PDT by xone
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To: xone
>>>So Paul was using the 'royal we'? Paul and the Holy Spirit were only talking about the people at the time the Epistle was written? You have a doctrine in search of a text to support it. Finding none, whatever text in hand is wrenched and bent and molded to fit the doctrine you want to support. No thanks Phil, that's no better than the Catholics using a snippet of scripture to validate their traditions. This teaching would have been blasted by Paul himself. Sure you have never been to Galatia. Your teachings sure have.<<<

I thought you might be a good debater; but I was mistaken. Sniping at those who make you uncomfortable is not what I expected from you. If you have no scripture to support your ideology, I would recommend you either find some, or abandon your ideology.

BTW, this is James, writing to the scattered twelve tribes (the lost sheep) of the house of Israel, saying essentially the same thing Paul said:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (Jam 1:18 KJV)

The definition of firstfruit can be found in the online dictionaries.

James is writing to encourage those lost sheep to keep the faith, as he explains:

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (James 5:8)

I seriously doubt James intended his words "draweth nigh" to mean 2000 years. He was expecting the coming of the Lord to happen in his generation, as Christ promised; and that is exactly what happened. That may be why James, and the others, cheerfully risked their lives.

Philip

376 posted on 03/14/2014 5:04:18 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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