1. Where in Josephus account does he specifically say that Jesus Christ, the son of man, came?
2. Where in Josephus account did he witnessed the risen Christ returning in glory? Or was Josephus not an eye-witness to the things he wrote about?
3. Where in Josephus account does he mention that the kings of the earth were slain?
4. Where does he mention that two individuals were thrown into the lake of fire?
You are shoe-horning Josephus into the Biblical text ...
Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.
Preterism reduces the second coming of Christ, the most spectacular event in human history, to an non-event that was kinda recorded by three people.
But in actuality ... we have not had our argument on first principles. First principles would dictate that we begin with the particulars of our theological methods ... in which dispensational and non-dispensational views differ in the construction of a systematic theology.
If we are to continue this discussion ... that is where we must venture.
>>>Where in Josephus account does he specifically say that Jesus Christ, the son of man, came?<<<
dartuser, I hope you trying to maintain a serious discussion.
Josephus was an Orthodox Jewish Priest, Historian, and Jewish General who was captured early on in the war. He wouldn’t know Jesus from Adam, except for maybe his reputation as a trouble-maker. Further, he was not on the mount of Olives with the disciples, so how could he know Jesus was even coming in the clouds of heaven?
Tacitus was a Roman Historian and Senator. He also would not know Jesus, except that maybe as the founder of a trouble-making group called Christians.
I was merely providing you and others with some of the many strange phenomena that occurred during the destruction of Jerusalem, including what both characterized as armies of soldiers flying around in the clouds. There were many other instances of strange and coincidental phenomena.
>>>Preterism reduces the second coming of Christ, the most spectacular event in human history, to an non-event that was kinda recorded by three people.<<<
That answered my question. You are not interested in a serious discussion. And your method of interpretation (which conveniently ignores all O.T. imagery of clouds and the powers of heaven) can mean “anything and everything,” depending on the imagination of the interpreter. How many different “Antichrists” do we have to endure?
It was, by the way, the most spectacular event in human history: just not in your modern view of history. The center of the practice of old testament theology was destroyed in a spectacular fashion; the old covenant was gone, and God’s chosen people were reduced to a mere remnant, in a matter of forty and two months, as predicted. Further, there was no one left with the power of the holy spirit that could provide us with any written record of the event.
Of course, those that heeded Jesus’ warning fled Judaea for the mountains. We know from historical records that many fled to the east to a place called Pella. But why no written record from the aftermath? That puzzles me as much as it appears to puzzle you.
Philip
Now that would be interesting. One of the reasons I posted the long piece from Irenaeus. It is the earliest account of a Christian theologian addressing prophecy. My point was he was a futurist. I guess that is where the premise begins. How does one address prophecy? Literal, allegory, historical and whether fulfilled, yet to be fulfilled and a mix of both.
I agree 100%. I will provide mine first:
I believe Jesus and the apostles were speaking directly to their immediate audiences, and not to us, except in a general sense. For example, when Jesus said to his disciples:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Mat 24:34 KJV)
I believe he meant exactly what he said: not only because of those words, but the context, which was this from Matthew, Mark and Luke:
"And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Mat 24:2-3 KJV)
"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?" (Mark 13:4 KJV)
"And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (Luke 21:7 KJV)
The "end of the world" part in Mat 24:3 was confusing at first, until I associated it with this:
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (Mat 12:32, KJV)
Even then the talk of two worlds was confusing. Only recently, when I obtained a Strong's Concordance, did I realize the disciples were referring to their "age", and not the "world."
The notion that Christ was not coming in the generation of his disciples, as he promised them, never crossed my mind.
In a nutshell, I try to avoid all opinions and doctrines of men. I let the "scripture interpret the scripture." I confess that I only recently began to use that quoted expression after I heard John Otis use it in one of his lectures.
Philip