This also did not happen "literally:"
"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it." (Isa 19:1)
It turns out the "Lord riding upon a swift cloud" was the Assyrian Army. LOL!
The following events also did not happen literally:
"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine . . . Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger." (Isa 13:10,13 KJV)
That was the Lord's way of saying that the old nation of Babylon, that had held Israel captive at one time, had seen its last days. LOL!
And this also did not happen literally:
"Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment." (Isa 34:3-5 KJV)
That was God's judgement against Idumea. LOL!
In light of all that imagery, which is similar to that in the Revelation, would it not be prudent to reconsider literalism as a viable interpretive method for the Revelation?
>>>>While Revelation uses symbolic language in part, it is black and white about specific key events that mark the tribulation period as well as final 3.5 years often known as “the days of wrath”, marked by a final blood bath at Armageddon. The time period you cite with its historic events just doesn’t fit with Biblical prophecy which describes the days of the coming of the Son of Man.<<<<
Everything I cite fits perfectly. There are tons of evidence, internal and external, that the Revelation was referring to the destruction of old Jerusalem, called Babylon the Great, and to the reign of Nero: old 666 himself. The most compelling evidence, to me, is the fact that Jesus said the great tribulation would occur in the generation of his disciples; that the blood of all the prophets would be required of the generation of Jews living during his ministry; and the fact that in Babylon the Great was found the blood of all the prophets. We have been fresh out of prophets since about 70 A.D.
>>>Unless you are prepared to set the book of Revelation entirely at naught, you can’t show me any period in history marked by 7 years of world wide earth shattering judgments, plagues, or an economic system that forces all men of all classes to take a mark and worship an image, a false prophet, and the beast, the son of perdition as described in Thessalonians. Are you prepared to deny the coming two witnesses?<<<
I believe every word of the book of Revelation; and, unlike dispensationalists, I have have neither added to it, nor taken anything away from it. Where did you get the seven years of "earth shattering judgements" in the book of the Revelation? I don't recall that. I do seem to recall history recording forty and two months of the Gentiles (the Roman Army) treading under foot the holy city (old Jerusalem) from 67 to 70 AD as prophesied in Rev 11:2.
Philip
That was the Lord's way of saying that the old nation of Babylon, that had held Israel captive at one time, had seen its last days. LOL!
I disagree...It means God was going to stop off at the Dairy Queen on his way home from the Hockey game...
If God didn't mean what he says, we can make up anything we want, can't we???
No but God rained fire and Brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah. There are “black and white” stone cold realities that Revelation says God will perform.
And don’t knock the use of symbolism as something that is not to be taken as seriously as “real” time language. God uses symbolism as he does to communicate to our spirits higher deeper realities that can not be contained in mere spoken words. God was certainly behind the Assyrians, who were known for the fierce swiftness, blitz krieg like in their military assaults...”like a swift cloud”, when they attacked Egypt. Habbakuk mentions the Chaldeans that were being raised up “as a scourge”. No they weren’t one giant “whip”...but God wielded the Chaldeans like a scourge to punish Israel. The symbolism merely describes the intrinsic reasoning behind why God allows Israel’s enemies to attack her for the punishment of her sins.
God did not use symbolic language when he decreed that Israel would again be a nation, in the latter days...though in one passage it is said he symbolically “hisses” for his people and they would come back to Israel from all the lands that they had been dispersed to.
But taking a mark is taking a mark and beast(yes a symbolic term for the son of perdition) worship is beast worship and the described spiritual punishment for doing so is stark in its effect upon the reader. Nothing like that can be shown to have happened yet in history.
The two witnesses display God’s full judgment power, there is no antecedent event yet noted in history that shows two men so reviled by all in the Earth that they rejoice, giving presents to each other when the witnesses are killed. That is not symbolic use of language the revelator uses in describing that event but rather a “dragnet style” just the facts madam account of a future event.
Now you can still try to poo poo my assertions but I suspect that you have a personal issue simply accepting the prophesied issues as laid down in bold black and white. Revelation has some strong scary things to say about the future on men upon the earth and one’s first reaction is to try to bury Revealation’s stark prophecy under a lot of preterist fluff about symbolic metaphors and snarky commentaries about contemporary emperors that existed at the time of John. I get it...God’s judgment will be fierce...what man could stand before it!
I can make distinctions between black and white assertions verses the use of symbolic similes. Indeed, I would pay more attention(as opposed to simple assertions of fact) to the reality God is trying to convey via the use of simile especially God’s beloved Son...The Logos made Flesh!
It turns out the "Lord riding upon a swift cloud" was the Assyrian Army. LOL!
This is a perfect example of where we disagree. I would encourage everyone to read and focus upon Is 19 for the moment.
I understand what you are getting at Phillip, but can you defend your position with a synopsis of how Is 19 is fulfilled by the Assyrians?
major points particularly:
- When was it that the Nile was turned - It seems self-evident that the passage is talking of the Nile, as the Nile is 'the' river of Egypt.
- When was it that Egypt quaked in fear at the name of the House of Judah?
- When was it that Egypt and Assyria turned to YHWH and especially when was this time of peace wherein YHWH called Judah in the middle of Assyria and Egypt, when all three are called 'My People'?
That was the Lord's way of saying that the old nation of Babylon, that had held Israel captive at one time, had seen its last days. LOL!
As an aside, I can see where you are going here too - but in fact, even in the allegorical, this didn't happen. For the Babylonian god system, the 'stars of heaven and the constellations thereof, the sun, and the moon' were not dimmed or caused to fail, as the very same pantheon can be seen all the way up through Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, and even to this day - The Babylonian Mystery Religion is by no means gone...
So IMHO, Using the allegorical the way it must certainly be used, this prophecy did not occur. Continuing the Babylonian prophecy into Is 14 makes it altogether unlikely.
Well, it seems you are living in heaven already. Nothing possibly could ever improve upon your lot in life for all eternity future.
My God still has a Plan, in which the Great Tribulation is still to come.
Since Revelation was written by John in 95 AD, it could not be a prophesy of events 25 years before that.
Your entire theological system crmubles to dust unless Revelation was written in AD66. To assume that is to assume a position against 99% of biblical scholars. Hitchcock dealt the deathblow to Gentry's work 10 years ago.
I suggest you read it.