Posted on 02/07/2014 4:44:09 AM PST by GonzoII
how so?
“humor me, please show me where you explained how the text is being twisted or manipulated?”
Sure:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3120249/posts
Read my posts in that link (LOL) and you should have an idea of what I was saying.
Now’s your chance to actually read my posts, analyze them, and explain how they are lacking or wrong in some way, and then I’ll be able to respond with more clarity, if clarity is needed.
I’ll explain later, I’m on my way to the patch, and the roads aren’t great lol.
Thank you for posting articles like this .. they’re very interesting.
Unlike the follow-on “discussion” (I use the term loosely), which is worse than merely useless.
Claims by “Born Agains” about needing to be born again is nothing but judgment by them that the Lord says not to do.
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445 of the Vatican Radio website
This is a very different reading than what you are purporting in your post.
**Catholic, Are You Born Again? **
Absolutely.
By water and the Spirit!
“This is a very different reading than what you are purporting in your post.”
Can you please give a logical and reasonable explanation for how that is so?
Here is where you can find out how to post consistently with the norms established here since 1997: HTML Sandbox 2013. You can also access this instruction thread any time by looking at the keywords on the top of the main page and selecting "HTML Sandbox."
This is the response of those that are not Born Again Christians. Rather, it is the response of those that are caught in a system that indoctrinates it's members with the idea that you will work your way to salvation.
The fundamental divide between Born Again Christians and Roman Catholics is how God's Grace is obtained. Born Again Christians understand that Grace is a gift of God that is given to us because of our Faith Alone in Jesus Christ Alone. We understand everything was changed at the Cross.
Roman Catholics do not believe The Gospel. Rather they follow the Jewish religious model that was established prior to the Cross. They teach that there is a required sacramental system, which can only be administered by their designated priesthood. The sacrificial system they believe in, as with the Jewish religious model, only has a temporary effect and requires regular replacement.
The RCC has also mimicked the Jewish practices in how their priests are elevated and believed to be the only ones worthy of implementing the needed ongoing sacrifice. Also, they embrace the idea that the civil state is an extension of the religious order and as such should impose the penalties for sin.
Like most non Born Again people they don't fully understand the significance of the Cross. The sacrificial system is done. The perfect sacrifice has been made and because it's perfect it is sufficient. Also what they fail to see, because they are not Born Again, is after the Cross churches were established as independent bodies that were unified by faith not the imposed power of the state.
Catholicism teaches you to get to third base, rarely teaching what you need to get to heaven. Many Romans come to fully trust Christ apart from works anyway. My father, for instance.
I’ve observed that Roman Catholics make great, joyful Christians when the light dawns about how to be sure of salvation.
“The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can… “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”.. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.” (Pope Francis)
This is definitely not:
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
You have actually concatenated two paragraphs and selectively quoted the Pope into one paragraph and you have purposely left out the context of Our Lord's words as quoted by the Pope - He was speaking about this in the previous paragraph:
Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:
Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445 of the Vatican Radio website
Text without Context is Pretext is my explanation as shown above.
Great suggestion!
I for one have really been enjoying GPH's insightful posts and using the italics would be helpful.
I have some serious questions. I was born and raised Catholic, but last year had a born again moment/experience. I am no longer Catholic and consider myself “born again” except for the fact that I have never been baptized as an adult. In the last few months the idea of wanting to be baptized has been really gnawing at my spirit. I am ready to to it. My question is, who performs my adult baptism? Can anyone do it, and where must it be...lake, swimming pool? This is really important to me now. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
“I think we would all be better able to follow your assertions”
You mean my facts. I do not most assertions. As for italics, actually, it doesn’t work for me. It just turns my posts into one giant text-block. No spacing. Just paragraphs all joined together. Same thing happens if I include any kind of weird text, such as stuff in Greek or Hebrew which wasn’t romanized. I suspect it’s the browser. One of these days I’ll fix it.
“You have actually concatenated two paragraphs and selectively quoted the Pope into one paragraph and you have purposely left out the context of Our Lord’s words as quoted by the Pope - He was speaking about this in the previous paragraph:”
I’m still missing the “logical” explanation for “how this is so.” You can probably start with explaining what the Pope meant, and what you think I said he meant, and explain how they do not converge.
But an RC can see what they want, and thus 3 simple mentions of household baptisms (Acts 16:33; 18:8; 1Cor. 1:16) is proffered as evidence for paedobaptism, yet the stated requirement is that of repentant wholehearted faith, (Acts 2:28; 8:36,37) which an infant cannot fulfill.
And while we suffer from the effects of Adam's sin, eternal damnation is based upon what one is personally culpable for, not that of our fathers. Dt. 24:16; 2Ki 14:5,6; 2Ch 25:4; Jer 31:29,30; Eze 18:20)
In addition, where more information is provided other than a cursory mean such as "I baptized also the household of Stephanas," then it records or indicates that those baptized were those who could hear the word and thus respond. (Acts 2:41; 8:12; 10:43-47; 19:4,5; 16:32; 22:16)
Secondly, what I am asserting is that you have purposely left many things out of your quoting of the Pope to make it justify your argument and to intimate that he was stating that we would meet atheists in heaven as if they were saved thru some sort of ignorance or work of themself. The Pope is not stating that at all. What he is asking people to do, or suggesting that people, even non-believers do, is to do good as a step to getting on the right path where we can meet and both help each other move forward towards Heaven.
I am not the Pope nor do I claim to be my own Pope so only he knows what he means entirely but that is what I get out of it when read in its entirety.
As for yourself, you should know what you were trying to state and if I misunderstood your thought or argument in the piecemeal paragraph by the Pope that you posted then correct me.
Did not the early church, which many non-Catholic Christians are purporting to go back to, baptize infants?
If St. Paul states that baptism replaces circumsision in the New Covenant, couldn't he have used a better analogy as to exclude infants from being baptized?
If faith in Christ is needed for salvation what happens if you yourself cannot make a confession of faith in Christ and you die? What if you were 2 years old? Are you condemmed to Hell?
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