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To: FatherofFive; Gamecock; HarleyD
I believe that, but you cannot believe what you believe and think this is true.

Why do you insist on making this personal. I told you what I believe and my position is quite consistent.

The default road is the road to destruction. Without God's irresistible intervention into our lives to make us willing to come to him, we would all reject him. So everyone is, by default, on the road to Hell, but God saves some of us. It is not by any choice of mine that God chose to save me.

You may think that you made some voluntary choice to come to Christ, but the fact of the matter is that if you came, it was because God made you willing. He violated YOUR precious Free Will and as a result, he changed you so that you were now not only able to come to him, but willing.

Not everyone gets to that position, but you did. Was it because you were better, smarter or more holy than the guy who never got there?

You seem to be insistent that your own free will choices brought you to the foot of the Cross, but the fact of the matter is that God brought you there. You ought to be grateful because without God interfering with your precious free will, you'd still be on the road to Hell.

97 posted on 01/19/2014 7:52:32 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: P-Marlowe; FatherofFive; Gamecock
You got it!!! And now you've stepped into the great truth of grace.

God does not prevent anyone from coming to Him. In fact, He calls and calls and calls. Never ceasing to call us to His loving arms. Trying all methods to bring us to Him. All the beauty around us-and all the tragedy that befalls us is meant to drive us to Him.

But we don't wish to come. We resist. We want that forbidden fruit. We want to murder our brother. God gave us His commandments simply to show us all the good things in life and we rebel against those commands. We want to commit all the things God has told us isn't for our good. When good things befalls us we boast in our self achievements. When tragedy strikes we shake our fist and say, "Why me God?" We are self-destructive. That is our choice. God is love and we rebel against this love.

But God still, after all this, wants to have fellowship with us. And for some of us like Moses, David, Samuel, John, Matthew, Peter, Paul and every other believer, God is gracious to change our hearts from stone to flesh. And we few believers receive mercy where we don't deserve it. Why He does this for us He tells us:

As imperfect as we are, we serve to the rest of the world examples of those who are trying to live our lives for God. God has set us apart to serve as examples to the rest of the self-destructive world. We're like little Noahs, building an ark while all the people laugh, ridicule, and perhaps pity us for our beliefs. Or perhaps like Israel marching through a wilderness, while all others nations look on with fear or hatred. We reject the things of this earth because we have a better homeland. We constantly call others to come in, yet they will not unless God changes their heart from stone to flesh, opening their eyes and changing their hearts. It is Christ that must tell them, "Come, follow me."

But the truth is, without God changing our hearts, no one would desire to be saved.

98 posted on 01/20/2014 3:06:03 AM PST by HarleyD (...one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Why do you insist on making this personal. I told you what I believe and my position is quite consistent.

I am not making this personal. When I say 'you' I am refering to the words you have written. I am actually enjoying this discussion.

But you don't seem to be answering my questions, and I see many inconsistencies in what you say.

So I will ask a series of Yes/No questions.

Did God create people who are predestined to salvation?
Did God create people who are not predestined to salvation?
Do the people who are not predestined to salvation have any chance of salvation?

I believe the answers are Yes, Yes and Yes. I believe your answers are Yes, Yes and No.

99 posted on 01/21/2014 11:53:27 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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