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To: FatherofFive; Gamecock
But you don't seem to be answering my questions, and I see many inconsistencies in what you say.

You asked me one question in post 92 and I answered it in post 93.

In regard yo your response about whether those who are not predestined to salvation having a chance at salvation, I think your position is inconsistent unless you also take the position that when God creates a person he doesn't know whether or not he will be numbered among the elect.

I can only understand the logic of your position if you also believe that God does not know the end from the beginning; that God is not omniscient.

If God knows I will die on a date certain, is there any hope of my survival beyond that date? If so, then God's foreknowledge is imperfect and subject to change.

There are people who believe that God does not know the future. Are you one of them? If not, then please explain how someone who has not been predestined to salvation can possibly be saved.

100 posted on 01/21/2014 12:31:40 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: P-Marlowe
please explain how someone who has not been predestined to salvation can possibly be saved.

First, let me say I truly enjoy this conversation with you.

Let me use an analogy. Say I have twin sons, I send them both to MIT for an engineering degree. I pay for their schooling. I call them weekly. I provide all they need. One son studies hard. The other barely cracks a book and drinks and smokes pot daily. I know one son will get his degree, and one will fall short. Neither were predestined to succeed or fail. Both could have achieved, Both were given all the opportunity (grace) to succeed. Because I know one will fail does not mean he was predestined to fail. It was his choice, not mine.

That is the difference. Because God knows who will accept His grace does not mean it was His choice. He does predestine some. That is in Scripture, so I believe it, but don’t understand it. But believing that God predestines some to hell is not consistent with Scripture. We can choose to accept his freely given grace, or reject it.

We do not "earn" our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).

Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Rom. 11:22–23, 1 Cor. 15:1–2; ) Paul tells us, "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23).

Read Paul’s letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin. Paul would not have felt compelled to do so if our sins could not exclude us from heaven (see, for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10, Gal. 5:19–21).

Paul told the Christians in Rome that God "will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom. 2:6–8).

102 posted on 01/21/2014 1:53:52 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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