Jesus Christ's Disciples Understood Him to Be the Creator [ECUMENICAL]

Jesus Christ: The Real Story ^ | unknown | Various

[DouglasKC]

Jesus Christ's Disciples Understood Him to Be the Creator

When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.

The book of Hebrews speaks of the Son as the Being through whom God created the worlds (Hebrews 1:2) and who "sustains all things by his powerful word" (verse 3, NRSV). Only God is great enough to do such things.

John confirms that Jesus was the divine Word through whom God created the universe: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:3; see verses 1-3, 14).

Paul states quite clearly that "God ...created all things through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:9). He elsewhere writes of Jesus: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). He adds in verse 17, "and in Him all things consist."

The Old Testament presents God alone as Creator of the universe (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 40:25-26, 28). When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.

Jesus claimed to be all that God is, and the disciples believed and taught it. They understood that Jesus was "the express [exact] image of His [God's] person" (Hebrews 1:3) and "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), and that "in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9, NRSV).

They understood precisely who He was and still is from His own words and actions. There was no question in their minds. They had seen Him prove it time and time again. They would go to their martyrdom firm in this conviction.

[editor-surveyor]

Is this somehow supposed to be a new revelation?

[editor-surveyor]

Actually Yeshua and his disciples shared the bread and wine one full day before Passover, just before he was taken by the Sanhedrin.

[editor-surveyor]

>> Let me guess — “Constantine and the Council of Nicea screwed everything up”, right? <<

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Do you believe that they had the slightest desire to get anything “right?”

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Christ instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper” <<

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Actually, Yeshua instituted a commandment that each and every time we have bread and wine, we do so in remembrance of him.

[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

[Lee N. Field]

>> Let me guess — “Constantine and the Council of Nicea screwed everything up”, right? <<

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Do you believe that they had the slightest desire to get anything “right?”

Just speculating based on something I noticed long ago about folks with aberrant views of the Trinity.

[DouglasKC]

Act_18:21 but took leave of them, saying, “I must by all means keep this coming feast[HEORTE] in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing.” And he sailed from Ephesus. Who to believe? Paul and Jesus Christ...” From Clarke’s commentary: I must - keep this feast - Most likely the passover, at which he wished to attend for the purpose of seeing many of his friends, and having the most favorable opportunity to preach the Gospel to thousands who would attend at Jerusalem on that occasion. The whole of this clause, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem, is wanting in ABE, six others; with the Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Vulgate. Griesbach leaves it in the text, with the mark of doubtfulness; and Professor White, in his Crisews, says, probabiliter delenda. Without this clause the verse will read thus: But he bade them farewell, saying, I will return again unto you, if God will. And this he did before the expiration of that same year, Acts 19:1, and spent three years with them, Acts 20:31, extending and establishing the Church at that place.

You have no explain so you quote the opinion of someone else who has no explanation but a pretend one.

Tnat's pretty amusing. Gee...we can't figure out why holy scripture says that Paul, a Pharisee of Pharisees, who was told in scripture to keep the feasts of the Lord, who followed the example of his Lord Jesus Christ who kept his feast, who specifically told his congregation to "keep the feast" (1 Cor 5:8)....we just can't figure out why he would go to a feast in Jerusalem!

I know...let's make something up! He was going to go meet his friends...yeah, that's the ticket. And to preach the gospel...yeah, that sounds good.

This verse appears in the oldest of the greek manuscripts and then wonders of wonders, Jerome removes it from the Latin Vulgate when he translates it in the 4th century.

It took (and takes) a tremendous amount of twisting, deception, denigration and obscuring to hide the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ from the consciousness of Christians. But the truth will always win in the end.

[DouglasKC]

Is this somehow supposed to be a new revelation?

Not at all. It was an opportunity...

[DouglasKC]

“1Co_5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast [HEORTAZO), not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.” I will happily keep the feast with unleavened bread of SINCERITY AND TRUTH, as opposed to actual unleavened bread, as your religion demands. Paul also entirely spiritualizes the Passover, applying it wholly to the person of Christ. From verse 7: Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Paul doesn't entirely "spiritualize" it. As a partly physical/partly spiritual people God knows that we can benefit and use physical things to learn spiritual lessons. During this time Paul rightly recognizes that leaven represents sin. By avoiding leavening during the feast of unleavened bread is a yearly reminder that we are to avoid sin...which will "puff us up" in pride.

Here's some references for further study:

Hebrew Roots-The Feast of Unleavened Bread

The Feast of Unleavened Bread-Replacing Sin with the Bread of Life

And if you ACTUALLY do observe the feast as Christ said we should and as Paul told his gentile congregations that they should...then welcome to the party pal.

[Kevmo]

I answered your question with a question:
***That is not answering the question.

don’t pretend that I’m trying to avoid anything. This thread should be evidence that I’m doing no such thing.
***This thread is plenty of evidence that you’re avoiding real questions. You’re pushing false teaching, heresy on FR.

---

The heresy razor.

What is said about one’s belief

they say-————— about our beliefs -——— about their beliefs

we say-—————— about our beliefs -——— about their beliefs

antitrinitarians say —valid; acceptable -——— Valid; “only True interpretation”

“Trinitarians say -— Valid, correct, “only True”-— Invalid, heretical

Basically, there is only one case where the heretical viewpoint is true. The best action in ALL cases is for the heretics to stop posting on Free Republic. Jesus wasn’t polite to heretics, and asking for ‘forbearance’ is asking more from FR than Christ asked of Himself.

[DouglasKC]

don’t pretend that I’m trying to avoid anything. This thread should be evidence that I’m doing no such thing. ***This thread is plenty of evidence that you’re avoiding real questions. You’re pushing false teaching, heresy on FR.

I'm pushing the bible. If you don't think so dispute the bible but don't sit on the sidelines and snipe...

[Kevmo]

You’re pushing the UCG heresy, and not only are you twisting the bible, you’re twisting history. First century jews were fiercely monotheistic, not pantheistic like the UCG pushes.

[DouglasKC]

Jesus wasn’t polite to heretics, and asking for ‘forbearance’ is asking more from FR than Christ asked of Himself.

Jesus was polite to heretics. He preached to heretics. He wasn't polite to hypocrites. Those who pretended to be the gatekeepers of religion. Those who pretended they were Godly but were full of iniquity.

Mat 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 “Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 “Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

[DouglasKC]

You’re pushing the UCG heresy, and not only are you twisting the bible, you’re twisting history. First century jews were fiercely monotheistic, not pantheistic like the UCG pushes.

Debate the bible...show me in scripture where I'm wrong.

[Kevmo]

It would appear you didn't bother reading post #56 to you. Jesus properly calls false teachers "vipers" and "sons of satan". A wolf in sheep's clothing is one who tries to disguise his inner motives as he comes up close to the sheep. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... biblehub.com/2_peter/2-1.htm‎ ... among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies,

[DouglasKC]

A wolf in sheep's clothing is one who tries to disguise his inner motives as he comes up close to the sheep. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... biblehub.com/2_peter/2-1.htm‎ ... among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies,

Destructive heresies like teaching that the 10 commandments are no longer applicable?

Destructive heresies like we don't have to obey Christ when he told his followers to observe his holy days?

Destructive heresies like homosexual clergy?

What destructive heresies are we talking about here?

[Kevmo]

I’d be happy to, but the bible says to have nothing to do with such heresies & false teachers, and besides, I can’t wipe the slime off my soul when I deal with heretics for too long. It takes so long to drive down on such heresies, and since I’ve only recently come across this particular UCG brand of heresy, I am not inclined to tango. At least not yet. That doesn’t stop me from sounding the alarm like the watchman at the gate. Lurkers are properly notified that they’re dealing with a heretical church when it comes to the UCG.

EZ33:6-9
6 “‘But if the watchman sees war coming and doesn’t blow the trumpet, warning the people, and war comes and takes anyone off, I’ll hold the watchman responsible for the bloodshed of any unwarned sinner.’

7-9 “You, son of man, are the watchman. I’ve made you a watchman for Israel. The minute you hear a message from me, warn them. If I say to the wicked, ‘Wicked man, wicked woman, you’re on the fast track to death!’ and you don’t speak up and warn the wicked to change their ways, the wicked will die unwarned in their sins and I’ll hold you responsible for their bloodshed. But if you warn the wicked to change their ways and they don’t do it, they’ll die in their sins well-warned and at least you will have saved your own life.

[Kevmo]

Destructive heresy of antitrinitarian viewpoints, “adding to the godhead” as expressed upthread, basically a denial of Who Jesus is and Who God is.