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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; redleghunter; metmom
Yes. Are you aware that there were many other means available, even in the 19th century? So did the Bible change in 1930, or did Protestantism? “Mechanical means were the most common birth control methods in the 19th century. These included: withdrawal by the male; melting suppositories designed to form an impenetrable coating over the cervix; diaphragms, caps, or other devices that were inserted into the vagina over the cervix and withdrawn after intercourse; douching after intercourse designed to kill or drive out the sperm; condoms,”

Other than informing and advising against methods that cause the death of the unborn - and the general respect for ALL life, what business is it of any church to mandate to its married couples what they can or cannot do in the privacy of their own marriage bed? The methods you mentioned were NOT abortifacient, were they?

The turn of the century brought changes in the needs of families. We went from an agrarian to an industrial society where large families were more difficult to provide for. The medical community responded to the need for parents to limit or control the number of children they brought into the world. Nobody intended that it would lead to increased promiscuity, adultery, prostitution or abortion. I don't think it was the intent to change the moral fabric of society or destroy the family. What started out as a helpful and needed benefit for civilization was perverted and twisted into what we have today. It has always been satan's design.

Did pre/extramarital sex, prostitution, adultery, abortion, child murder and abuse, exploitation of women exist before the "sexual revolution"? Yes, but these acts were not accepted by civilized society and were rightfully seen as negative, wrong and destructive to us all. Not very many people were aware that the "pill" had a back-up function of making the uterine wall incapable of attachment of an embryo - should one be fertilized. Most people - doctors included - were lead to believe that the pill only prevented a mature egg from being released and fertilized. That was how it was sold and why some churches did not object to women having that option. None of the "Protestant" churches approved of sex outside of marriage nor of abortion.

When the question is asked, "Did the Bible change in 1930, or did Protestantism?", the answer isn't so clear cut. First of all, the Bible didn't say anything about contraception. Outside of the Onan incident - which isn't a clear cut prohibition of "withdrawal" so much as disobedience to God's commands regarding a Jewish brother's responsibility to his deceased brother's widow - nothing is even close to talking about the subject. Again, nobody advocated for baby murder. That's why I think the question is disingenuous. Catholics have NO Apostolic tradition they can point to that proves them right on their prohibition of ALL methods of contraception. All they have is other people's ideas and opinions, but nothing regarding official teaching from the Apostles. We have their prohibition against sexual immorality, but not word one about married people and what they can or cannot do in the marriage bed.

Now, we can talk about doctrines that DO matter for a person's salvation and those that HAVE changed over the years in the Roman Catholic Church. Doctrines that some Protestant and Evangelical churches, for example, have never strayed from and which can be traced back directly to the Apostles because they are clearly taught in sacred Scripture. Did the Bible change or did Catholicism?

299 posted on 01/05/2014 6:18:49 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
Talking of 1930, don't forget the abject poverty brought on by the politics of the Great Depression, and the heartbreak of trying to feed large, or maybe any, families, that might have changed attitudes that heretofore were intransigent.
303 posted on 01/05/2014 6:39:57 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: boatbums
Governor Moonbeam himself couldn't have written a better short defense of the doctrine that flows from the lame sociological distortion of Christianity that amounts to reading Genesis as if it says, "Then Adam said to Eve, let us make God in our own image".
310 posted on 01/05/2014 8:23:04 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
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To: boatbums
Catholics have NO Apostolic tradition they can point to that proves them right on their prohibition of ALL methods of contraception.

You're wrong.

The Church Fathers on Contraception

Here are some quotes:

Letter of Barnabas
"Moreover, he [Moses] has rightly detested the weasel [Lev. 11 :29]. For he means, 'Thou shalt not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth with the body through uncleanness [orally consummated sex]; nor shalt thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth with the body through uncleanness"' (Letter of Barnabas 10:8 [A.D. 74]).

Clement of Alexandria
"Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted" (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).

Clement of Alexandria
"To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature" (ibid. 2:10:95:3).

Hippolytus
"[Christian women with male concubines], on account of their prominent ancestry and great property, the so-called faithful want no children from slaves or lowborn commoners, they use drugs of sterility [oral contraceptives] or bind themselves tightly in order to expel a fetus which has already been engendered [abortion]" (Refutation of All Heresies 9:12 [A.D. 225]).
318 posted on 01/05/2014 11:30:47 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
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