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To: Steelfish
One simply cannot crack open a Bible and take quotes without reading of text, context, history, revelation, and tradition.

Of course not, but that is not in dispute, and we contend against those who do so, which RCs often engage in, besides liberal views of Scripture. Even quoting Pope Benedict while wresting Scriptures. And who also states, “Co-redemptrix departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings,” while others disagree, and pull all sort of things out of Scripture to support their Mariology.

The issue is what the supreme authority is.

These are the usual norms of Scriptural interpretation and we have One Church established by the Christ to do this.

If she does say so herself, and as conditionally infallible. What is the basis (Scripture, history, etc?) for your assurance of this claim? Is it that that the steward of Scripture makes them the infallible interpreter of it, and that this infallible magisterium is necessary to recognize and preserve truth, so the flock will not follow others?

That Truth is found in the “Catholic Catechism” with no room for Cafeteria Catholics to pick, choose, and pull apart.

Your problem is that reality denies your mythical fantasy. Souls of evangelical type faith like myself and better have held and contended for core truths we both concur with for hundreds of years, and against cults, as well as against tradition of men that are the result of sola ecclesia (their church alone is the supreme authority on earth) , which they also operate out of.

And under which you have both formal and informal divisions and sects. As we do, sadly, the different being a matter of degrees, while comprehensive doctrinal unity never existed. .

In addition, your error is asserting faithfulness is based upon official statements, but the CCC can state all it wants, as i can as well, but that is not necessarily what i really believe, which, as said, is manifest by what is overall do. For as James 2 teaches, "I will shew thee my faith by my works." Thus believer will be judged by their works, as this is what evidences faith, real or spurious.

And Rome abounds with liberalism, treating them as members in life and in death. As said, canon law (1184) forbids ecclesiastical funerals to such as would cause "public scandal of the faithful," but which in application means notorious public examples like Hugo Chavez or Teddy K are given ecclesiastical funerals, and the latter congenial correspondence and blessing by the pope. All such manifests more what your church really believes than her statements.

Moreover, gong back to Scripture, Rome as the church with its magisterial levels, has even sanctioned very liberal Bible scholarship in her own Bible for decades, thus she manifests what she believes, and thus is shown as effectually fostering liberalism overall wherever she predominates, in contrast to evangelical faith. (Though both are in declension overall in these latter days.)

164 posted on 01/01/2014 7:39:24 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Your response simply affirms my point by quoting scripture as “your” view of the teachings of the Christ no more than the David Koresh’s, Jim Jones; Robert Schuller’s, and Joel Osteen’s of today. This is precisely why Christ delivered the “Great Commission” to St. Peter to teach one truth given to His Church.

Every time, in the whole New Testament, there is a list of the 12 apostles, Peter is always named first. Even though he was not the first apostle to be chosen (see again Jn.1:40-42), he is first among the apostles.

The ministry Jesus intended for Peter

Peter the Rock: (Read with the class Mt. 16:13-23)

Peter acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus praises Peter in response, and outlines the special ministry He will give to him (in the future; it is all future tense)

First: He makes a play on words: “You are Peter (Rock), and on this rock I will build my Church.” In Christ’s own native tongue, Aramaic, the two words would have been identical: “You are Kepha, and on this Kepha I will build my Church.” Peter himself is the rock on which the Church will be built.

Second: “the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (that is , the Church built on Peter). So Peter is to be a lasting foundation stone, a continual rock-support for the Church in every generation, not just in his own lifetime.

Third: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom.” The keeper of “the keys,” in ancient Israel, was the chief deputy of the king, with authority to admit or exclude from the king’s household, or capital city, whomever he wished, in accordance with the best interest of the king (eg., Is. 22:22). So, to be in the household of Jesus the “Christ” (the anointed Messiah-king) is to be there with Peter’s recognition.

Fourth: the authority to “bind” and “loose”. Among the ancient rabbis, this phrase meant the authority to forbid and permit in the community of faith, including the teaching of God’s law.

Fifth: Peter’s decisions to “bind” (forbid) and “loose” (permit) in the Church are to be ratified (backed-up) “in heaven.” So heaven’s guidance is promised to Peter for his authoritative decisions.

In short, Jesus promised to make Peter His key bearer – His chief deputy in the community of His disciples – and this would be so for every generation, with the support of heaven. In this way Peter’s ministry would be the “Rock” of the Church


167 posted on 01/01/2014 8:17:32 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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