Posted on 12/30/2013 9:35:20 AM PST by RnMomof7
As said, when you have an actual argument versus mere assertions, then get back to me. Rome cannot be the one true church because it is based upon the premise that historical descent makes it so, but which i a church presuming an assuredly infallible perpetual magisterium, infallibly defining that it is such, and the one true church, by which circularity you have your assurance.
Thus you are not to engage in objective examination of the Scriptures in order to ascertain the veracity of its truth claims, but instead she calls for implicit assent of faith in its leadership when teaching officially.
Therefore by making the church the supreme authority over Scripture, she operates under under a model of cults, and is contrary to the NT church which began upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, believing in an itinerant Preacher who established His claims upon the same, in dissent from those who likewise presumed of themselves above that which is written, though they were the stewards of Scripture, etc.
But being not subject to Scripture as the supreme authority, what Rome officially teaches includes perpetuation of the errors of traditions of men, and which fosters faith in herself and one's own merits for salvation, dead ritualism, overall liberalism, perfunctory professions or such blind zeal as many RCs example here. And what she does manifests what she really believes.
Which is in contrast to the body of Christ which is visible by fruits of manifest regeneration, in superior commitment to core truths and devotion and service, and conservative moral values.
As a former weekly RC, CCD teacher, and lector, after i became born again, i, even as one who constantly needs mercy and grace, knows the profound difference institutional faith and living faith and the fellowship of the Spirit resulting from a shared personal conversion to Christ out of a broken heart contrite spirit, and Scripture-based relationship with Christ. And which is greater than external organic tribalism. But which we realize with very few RCs (or mainline Prots), as they trust in their church, and or own merits.
I am “born again” every time I am with Lord Jesus during the Eucharist. Any man or woman that would walk away from the Eucharist never believed in the Real Presence. It is unconscionable to think that anyone could abandon Christ. Lack of faith is the reason. It is always the reason. It has been going for 2,000 years, starting with the apostles. You didn’t believe, therefore your left. I will say a special prayer for these lost souls at Mass.
I firmly believe that if a person sincerely prays and studies, God will direct him to the Christian congregation in which he will best do God's work. For many sincere Christians this church will be the Catholic Church. I support them in their decision.
Nothing would please me more than to have every Catholic in this nation **fully** and completely practicing their faith and voting accordingly. Imagine how much more prosperous and healthy all of us would be.
This is the reason my husband and I left:
My husband and I attended a cumulative 31 years of Catholic schooling ( K-12 and university). If we failed to fully understand Catholic doctrine in that amount of time, then it is the fault of the Catholic education system since we fully did our part and our grades prove this.
We rejected the Marxist influence of the priests in our local parishes and our college professors. For nearly a decade we rejected all religion as being false. Then in our early thirties we felt impressed to reestablish our relationship with Christ and returned to Catholic mass at my husband's university. We attended for several months. After Mass there was coffee and donuts. What we saw at this after-mass gathering was nothing but a homosexual “meet and greet” club with the priest as the queen bee. The reactivation classes were nothing more than Marxism filtered through Liberation Theology.
Finally, on Christmas morning we attended Mass with my husband's relatives in his home state. On the drive home both of us simultaneously looked at each other and said, “This will never work!” Both of us had had such a dark feeling while attending the mass that we **knew** that this was not the direction we should be taking.
On returning to our home state, I looked up the local church of a professor that my husband admired. I realize now that we “knew” him by his “fruits”. After 6 months of careful study. serious prayer, and the Holy Spirit's undeniable confirmation, we formally joined this church.
All of our children have married spouses of this denomination, and all are firmly active and are raising our 12 grandchildren ( and now 3 great grandchildren) in this church. The wholesome fruits of our decision is plainly evident for all to see in these thriving families.
I **know** that my husband and I made the correct decision. To deny this would be denying the testimony given to us ( on many occasions) by the Holy Ghost. To act contrary to this sure knowledge would be a grave sin.
Gee! I miscalculated. It was **33** combined years of Catholic schooling. I forgot to add my husband’s two years getting a masters degree.
That is absurd, as besides being Biblically "born again" (Jn. 3:3) being that which occurs in conversion, (Acts 15:9; 1Pt. 1:3, 23; Ja. 1:8) and is not a repeatable event (go find even official RC teaching that says it is), considering the spiritual deadness of Catholics or blind cultic zeal, it makes a mockery of Biblical regeneration. As does infant baptism.
And instead, it is characteristically those who do not believe in the real presence and the gospel of Rome but are born again by personal repentance and faith to save them as damned+destitute sinners, and hold Scripture as supreme, that most manifest evidences of regeneration.
The more you attempt to argue for your idol, in your blind zeal for her, the more she is impugned.
“Catholics who leave the church because they are more spiritually fulfilled by protestant services are ignorant of the beauty of the Church.”
You might stop to notice that just maybe you are the problem and people like you that are fueling the problem.
I’m not Catholic, but in general, when people don’t want to be around you, calling them “Stupid” is probably not the best response, as it helps others who have not yet decided that you are the problem become convinced of it and vote with their feet.
I’m happy for people wherever they find their religious home, no matter which direction they are “swimming the Tiber”.
Again, you may wish to observe that you may be part of the problem yourself.
Calling them “sinners”, accusing them of being undisciplined and immoral, and lying stupid people is also not advisable - it only convinces people that you are the problem and they continue to vote with their feet.
Why not be happy for them that they’ve found a home rather than rationalize their departure as reinforcing your own moral, intellectual, and disciplinary superiority?
“They have no sacraments, no doctrine, no theology. It’s every man for himself.”
Again, deliberately lying about other faiths is unlikely to assist the exodus of people who don’t want to be around you.
Maybe it’s not the Catholic Church they object to, maybe it’s you, and people like you who are so convinced of their moral superiority that they look at folks leaving their faith as a good thing.
Be happy for them, and use it as an opportunity to be a little more introspective, and a little less like a douche.
A big “C” Catholic does not imply little “c” catholic.
There are Protestant denominations who also have apostolic succession, you may be surprised to find out.
I guess they “apostolically seceeded” back in the day.
“And a large percentage of those leaving do so because the other churches approve serial adultery (i.e., divorce and remarriage.)”
A opposed to marriage->annulment (for the well-heeled only) ->remarriage, which is much more moral and correct compared to what those dirty Protestants do.....right?
Then we can pray that God will put someone in the life’s path that will lead them back to the Catholic Church.
Hey tonto, my “idol” is Jesus Christ. Someone you turned your back on. No sane Catholic would leave the faith for a happy, feely, kumbaya, no-sacrament, no theology, no-structure protestant faith.
“There are Protestant denominations who also have apostolic succession, you may be surprised to find out”.
Wrong. Martin Luther seen to that.
I agree that the American annulment mill is an abomination. Fortunately our annulments represent the vast majority of annulments globally so it is not a universal abuse.
That being said, the tired old canard about only the rich being able to afford one is just silly. I have yet to meet a committed Catholic who, truly qualifying for an annulment, was unable to afford to go through the process.
I’ve tried. Brought a few back locally. Its a difficult hill to climb. Fortunately we just plant a seed and the Holy Ghost does the rest.
” I have yet to meet a committed Catholic who, truly qualifying for an annulment, was unable to afford to go through the process.”
I don’t doubt you for a second. It’s the ones that are not truly qualifying for an annulment and get one anyway that are the ones they make the most cash off of.
“Wrong. Martin Luther seen to that.”
Really? I think you’ll find you are mistaken.
It comforts Catholics to convince themselves that people leave for moral reasons. Then they aren't forced to consider that people leave for valid theological reasons.
It does foster spiritual pride like nothing else I've seem. The tax collector and pharisee praying outside the temple come to mind.
“It comforts Catholics to convince themselves that people leave for moral reasons. “
I dunno.....I’m not trying to encourage a sectarian fist-fight, but it amuses me that people’s first reflex is to declare someone who doesn’t want to be around them as “stupid” or “morally deficient”.
I know how they feel. Why, I was quite offended that Newt Gingrich left his Protestant roots. I got over it though, and am happy that he is now giving the Catholic Church the exclusive benefits (as far as we can tell) of his moral superiority.
So the point is Protestants are not immune from the same human feelings.
Best to just be happy for folks who seek and find a spiritual home.
Is evidently your church, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh, and your speech indicates your church is your real source of security, and object of affection and allegiance and if it were Christ. You thus have zero fellowship with those who were manifestly born of the Spirit, but attack them because they do not bow to Rome.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (Galatians 4:29)
I will leave you to your delusions.
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