Advise me: A Christian who does good deeds thinks they can sin because of their good works?

Today | Me

[dila813]

What is it called when a Christian who does good deeds thinks they can sin because of their good works?

Do you know someone like this? How do you deal with them?

I feel like I should confront them, but currently I am just ignoring them. What is the right thing to do?

Some of them have significant influence in and around my family. I am very uncomfortable.

I find it is frustrating to deal with someone who feels they are so superior to others that they can lie, cheat, steal, and do other similar sins all day long because they are involved with a Christian Non-Profit / Missions.

[Venturer]

Not really you want to screw around.

[dila813]

evangelical Christian is who they profess to be, I am Catholic myself, I don’t know what to think.

[ravenwolf]

I know they feel they are saving souls by delivering them to Jesus,

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I was listening to my uncle preach to me one day many years ago, he was not actually preaching but was telling me how bad my brother in law was for being in jail.

My brother in law had been in jail for bootlegging although he was not boot legging for money, people were just paying for their share ( they lived in a dry county )

I reminded him that the fellow was actually a pretty good guy, in fact he would do anything in the world that he was able to do to help any one out.

My uncle remarked that being a jail bird was enough evidence for him, so although i knew very little of the Bible at that time i reminded him that Jesus and some of his apostles had also been in jail.

So what do you think Jesus would have you do? would he suggest you call the police?

Personally i think Jesus and also his apostles had their own problems with the police.

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that the way you conduct your life is more important than your personal pride and demonstrations of faith.

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That is a fact and if they are frauds you should use the Bible to expose them if you intend to expose them at all.

[GeronL]

as some say “Once saved always saved”

I guess all the sins in between being saved and dying don’t matter to some people, they think they will still go to heaven

[dila813]

I suspect they will reject me as less than them because I don’t constantly request donations to charities etc..

This person thinks they are on a superior level.

[dila813]

Basically, their good works is going to a homeless shelter each Christmas and Thanksgiving .... and then the remainder of the time is requesting donations from their friends for charities associated with their friends.

[dila813]

You might be right, these ideals are unknown to me. I thought their actions were based on their own ideals, not something that might have been preached / taught to them.

[zerosix]

Whether or not your "friends" are true believers and listed in the Lamb's Book of Life, only God knows but even if they are, they will still sin, they can't help it.

We are sinners, some saved by God's Grace. Though we are still human and will sin, if saved, we must still examine our hearts daily for hidden or open sins and continue to beg for forgiveness from God, not for Salvation again, for we have already been given Eternal Life and Jesus' death on the Cross, "wiped away our sins, they are remembered no more."

Yet even the believers must continue to examine their hearts as well as ask God to expose our hidden sins to us so we can admit them, ask for forgiveness and pray to have those temptations removed from us.

If your "friends" belong to this group and are sinning in a bold way, as they must for it to be so obvious, they are NOT forgiven from those sins as their pride has clouded their eyes.

God has a way to deal with them as well as He did with Anias and Sapphira in scripture. They believed in Jesus but in their pride lied to other believers and pretended to be doing "good works" but wound up paying for those lies with their lives!

Not that your "friends" have or will pay the same price but have no fear, God understands why non-believers sin and their penalty will be spending Eternity without Christ but those who believe in Christ, yet return to their old ways, God holds them to a higher standard than He does non-believers, for we know better and even though we are still tempted to sin, if we hold ourselves to non-believers as "high and mighty" are indeed hypocrites and abhorrent and a blight on the name of Christ.

If or when we behave in such ways, we are in grave danger for our sins may cause others to sin and we've been told "it would be better if we had never been born," should that happen.

Whether or not your "friends" are true believers, you need not tolerate their smug behavior, especially, if they have any influence on your family but take it up with them privately and let them know that their so-called "good works" are a sham and you aren't going to be buffaloed into looking the other way.

[Yosemitest]

You failed to address the scripture given in those quotes.
Interesting dodge.

[RichInOC]

Yeah, no, that’s not right. In fact, if I knew somebody who was being like that and thinking like that outside their mission activities, I’d have (I think) reasonable concerns about whether they’re maybe doing it with the mission activities as well. That’s not cool.

[Yosemitest]

Read the Bible yourself, and any respectable encyclopedia for that matter.
The Great Whore (woman representing the church) is clearly identified.

The "mark" is the mark of the BEAST --
and the "beast" is the ROMAN EMPIRE.
In Revelation 17 a later stage of this same wild beast is pictured, and there a "woman" --
a great CHURCH
-- sits astride it, guides it, rules over it.
But the MARK is the mark of the ROMAN EMPIRE --
not the Roman Catholic Church.

That is fact number one. Keep that in mind.
Now in verse 11 (Rev. 13) another "beast" is pictured.
This beast had two horns like a lamb, but spoke as a dragon.

The Bible plainly reveals this second "beast" to be the Roman Catholic Church.
This Church is an ecclesiastical world Empire --
a government. (See article "Papacy", Encyclopedia Britannica.)
This second beast of Revelation 13 is also pictured in Revelation 17 as the harlot woman who rode the beast.
This fallen woman or Church is different from all other churches in one respect.
She is organized at the Vatican as a civil Government, as well as an ecclesiastical church.
Nations of the world send Ambassadors to the Vatican, at Rome, the same as they do the capitals of other nations.

This Church, just as the woman riding an animal guides and directs the animal --
like, for example, a woman riding a horse
-- took over, exercised, wielded, all the power of the first beast --
the Roman Empire.
After 554 A.D., the Church did do this for 1260 years, as prophesied!

Notice, further, verses 15-16:
"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And he causeth all, ... to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Rev. 13:15-16).

Now here is a deceived Church --
both herself deceived by, and therefore used by the devil,
and also deceiving the world.
Notice, this Church did not actually herself kill these martyrs --
she merely caused them to be killed.
And she it was, too, who CAUSES all under her domination to receive the dread MARK of the beast.



A CHART SHOWING PROPHECIES OF REIGN OF GENTILE KINGDOMS
Dan. 2 The IMAGE	Daniel 7 The FOUR BEASTS   (State)       (Church)		Dan. 8 The RAM and GOAT	Revelation 13 The BEAST and IMAGE (State)          (Church)		Rev. 17 BABYLON and BEAST	EXPLANA- TION of Symbols	The EVENTS Fulfilled in HISTORY
Head of GOLD v. 32, 38	1st BEAST like LION v. 4						1st HEAD of prophetic BABYLON	The CHALDEAN EMPIRE (Babylon) 625-539 B.C.
Breast and arms of SILVER v. 32, 39	2nd BEAST (BEAR) v. 5		RAM with 2 horns v. 3, 4, 20				2nd HEAD of prophetic BABYLON	The PERSIAN EMPIRE (Medo-Persia) 558-330 B.C.
Belly and thighs of BRASS v. 32, 39	3rd BEAST (LEOPARD) 4 heads v. 6		HE GOAT with great horn and 4 notable ones v. 5-8, 21, 22				3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th HEADS of prophetic BABYLON	GREECE, under Alexander the Great, and four divisions, began 333 B.C.
Legs as IRON v. 33, 40-43	4th BEAST strong like IRON with 10 HORNS v. 7, 23, 24			The BEAST with 7 HEADS and 10 HORNS v. 1, 2			7th HEAD of prophetic BABYLON, with ten HORNS	The ROMAN EMPIRE, 31 B.C.-A.D. 476, in 2 divisions, West and East
				The DEADLY WOUND v. 3				Fall of the ROMAN EMPIRE A.D. 476
	1st HORN (plucked by roots)			1st HORN			These three horns, destroyed at behest of Pope, fill the “Transition Age” (Myers)	The VANDALS A.D. 429-533
	2nd HORN (rooted up)			2nd HORN				The HERULI Odoacer’s government, A.D. 476-493
	3rd HORN (rooted up)			3rd HORN				The OSTROGOTHS A.D. 493-554
		LITTLE HORN among ten v. 8, 20-22, 24-27			2 horned “LAMB DRAGON” and “IMAGE” v. 11-18	SCARLET WOMAN who rode the BEAST v. 1, 2	Ruled the beast, so called BABYLON the GREAT	FALSE CHRISTIANITY and church government, or “image” of Roman Empire government
	4th HORN			1st of remaining 7 horns— DEADLY WOUND HEALED (to continue 1260 years) v. 5		1st HEAD of BEAST (healed) ridden by scarlet- clothed woman	Since the “Great Whore” never rode any of the 7 heads of the 1st 4 beasts, but did mount and ride the last 7 horns of Daniel’s 4th beast it follows that the last 7 horns of Dan. 7 and Rev. 13 are the 7 HEADS of Rev. 17 (5 fallen at collapse of Napoleon).	“IMPERIAL RESTORATION” of empire by Justinian, A.D. 554. He recognized supremacy of this world’s Christianity.
	5th HORN			2nd of remaining 7 HORNS		2nd HEAD ridden by woman		FRANKISH KINGDOM Began 774. Charlemagne crowned A.D. 800
	6th HORN			3rd of remaining 7 HORNS		3rd HEAD ridden by woman		HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE (German head). Otto the Great crowned, 962.
	7th HORN			4th of remaining 7 HORNS		4th HEAD ridden by woman		HAPSBURG dynasty (Austrian head), Charles V crowned, 1520.
	8th HORN			5th of remaining 7 HORNS		5th HEAD ridden by woman		NAPOLEON’S KINGDOM (French head), crowned, 1805.
In 1814, just 1260 years after “deadly wound” was healed, the “HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE” was dissolved. “So closed a government that dated from Augustus Caesar” (West, p. 377).
	9th HORN			6th of remaining 7 HORNS		6th HEAD ridden by woman	(One IS) Rev. 17:10	ITALY, united by Garibaldi, 1870 to 1945
The Ten TOES	10th HORN			7th and last HORN	Beast ascends out of pit	7th head and ten HORNS	(One yet to come)	Revived ROMAN EMPIRE, by 10 rulers under one leader.

[Yosemitest]

Sorry for the delayed response, but take a look at comment #71 .
And click on the link "A CHART SHOWING PROPHECIES OF REIGN OF GENTILE KINGDOMS".
That chart and the learned people who put it together can do a much better job than I can, explaining the subject.

Here is another CHART that is worth your time.
That comes from the booklet Who or What is the Prophetic Beast? (1985) and is about 40 pages,
but it is one of the most shocking and revealing booklets that you'll ever read.
Don't just read it, but PROVE EVERY SOURCE GIVEN.
Look them up for yourself, and you'll see and you'll be stronger for it.


But I think you're pretty much on target.
Look at all the Churches that have "rebelled out of" the Catholic Church.

[Yosemitest]

One other thing.

"... the beast that had the wound but did live ~ does seem to be the Church ... "

Read Daniel 7 , and read it closely.
Pay particular attention to verse 17, and then read again verses 8 through 28 again .
Remember, "Kings" represent governments and governments ruled by man or men, and NOT God.

[Yosemitest]

"come out of your cult and become a Christian."

Pay attention to your Bible and what God says, not what men say.

Who's in "a cult" and who's "a Christian" ... and who's NOT ?

[Syncro]

...that involved money to the church for sins or something like that

Yup, you could buy your way into heaven. They stopped doing that but still burden you with good works (filthy rags) to get into heaven.

[Disclaimer: Eternal life is a free gift, no amount of works can gain us salvation, we must be born again]

One particularly well-known Catholic method of exploitation in the Middle Ages was the practice of selling indulgences, a monetary payment of penalty which, supposedly, absolved one of past sins and/or released one from purgatory after death.

It was the selling of indulgences that led the Reformer Martin Luther to post his famous 95 Theses - a document challenging Roman Catholic authority in theological matters, including indulgences and many others. Luther's opposition to the selling of indulgences was not new, however. In most of the Reformation movements stress lay not upon new understandings or doctrines, but on a return to the more authentic and original excellence of tradition.

Luther, one of the main Protestant Reformers, eventually arrived at the conclusion that divine relationship and salvation come by grace through faith, not by good works, belief in dogma, or economic propitiation. One's relationship to the divine is initiated by God, and one can only participate in this relationship by remaining open to it. Therefore, Luther's theology placed him in square opposition to the Roman Catholic practice of selling indulgences.

Hmmm, it was all about money.

Same ol', same ol'...

[Syncro]

Look at all the Churches that have "rebelled out of" the Catholic Church.

Look at all the individuals that have:

According to recent demographic surveys, it seems there are presently 30 million people in the U.S. who identify themselves as “former Catholics.”

[Yosemitest]

That was an "okay" article, but like much of today's media, it missed the point.
When we read God's word, for ourselves, and not have someone interfering with our comprehension of it, we get real peace and real rest from it.
But today's churches work around God's word, avoiding it, almost, or try to tippy-toe through it, and dare not go beyond the scriptures they've "cut out" for their congregation.
For if they do, then they are discovered to be false teachers, and caught trying to lead people astray, so as to devour them financially and spiritually.
God's people need God's Word, and God's church (which are His people, and not a building) to guide them.
But God's words can stand on their own, and also be understood on their own, if we really try.

Keep at it, and keep reading God's Bible.

[Carpe Cerevisi]

You failed to address the scripture given in those quotes. Interesting dodge.

Okay...Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet, thief and liar who fleeced many people - why would I read prophecy crap that is obviously incorrect and anti-Catholic. How many times did he predict the world would end?

[ravenwolf]

That chart and the learned people who put it together can do a much better job than I can, explaining the subject.

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It is interesting to say the least, i have read more than one version and although they differ they do make sense, but i doubt if anything is going to be entirely accurate.

[ravenwolf]

and then the remainder of the time is requesting donations from their friends for charities associated with their friends.

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I also know quite a few Christians who will spend their free time in that way, in my view these would literally be the least of these that Jesus talks about.

I do not think it to be a great thing to give if everything you give comes from some one else.

In my line of work i have saw many people who do not even make a big deal about being a Christian but just are, work for hours to help some one who they have never even saw before get back on the road or etc.

And the worst part is that i do not see but very little of the same thing from people who show their Christianity by words.

1 John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.