Doug I may have asked this before. How do you trace apostolic authority for the laying of hands to receive the Holy Spirit? I know you said any believer can do it, but that would require, excuse the term, believer “zero” to get the ball running in your church. Is there a tradition in your church dating back to when? Is it your view there was a parallel tradition coming from the early church unknown to history given the historic claims of Rome and the Eastern Orthodox churches?
To show I am not being snarky in asking this, I will admit Armstrong claimed a different unbroken apostolic tradition from Rome. I think he called it the underground church. I did not get this from a website but from his early programs which my friends mom used to watch.
I don't think there had to be apostolic authority in the way you defined it last time we talked. Nobody knows for sure the path, only that we trust that God provided that path. Obviously we can't know for sure.
And BTW I don't think that the path led straight or exclusively to UCG. My speculation is that the first gentile Christians and the first jewish Christians established this line and it went many places and through many organizations such as Catholics, Protestants or groups unknown, etc. and branched out many places. Those first gentiles who receive the God's spirit are never again mentioned in scripture but it's presumed they laid hands on people. I also don't think the holy spirit is something that is transferred from person to person but instead is given by God at the request of believer by God through prayer and the laying on of hands.
I will admit Armstrong claimed a different unbroken apostolic tradition from Rome. I think he called it the underground church. I did not get this from a website but from his early programs which my friends mom used to watch.
From my understanding (and I was never in Armstrong's organization) I think you're right. He and most of the Worldwide people taught for the most part that that this path was invisible and probably wouldn't have granted that it could go through any traditional or Catholic church. My view, which I believe is shared by many within UCG, is that Christians and potential Christians exist within (and outside of) many organizations. UCG has for the last few years been trying to weed out what are traditional beliefs as opposed to scriptural ones. Hope that helps. Clearly there must be speculation about this...
“Doug I may have asked this before. How do you trace apostolic authority for the laying of hands to receive the Holy Spirit? I know you said any believer can do it, but that would require, excuse the term, believer “zero” to get the ball running in your church. Is there a tradition in your church dating back to when? Is it your view there was a parallel tradition coming from the early church unknown to history given the historic claims of Rome and the Eastern Orthodox churches?
To show I am not being snarky in asking this, I will admit Armstrong claimed a different unbroken apostolic tradition from Rome. I think he called it the underground church. I did not get this from a website but from his early programs which my friends mom used to watch.”
Well, we have to consider all that Armstrong said on the matter. Armstrong’s actual roots, by the way, came out of the Church of God-Seventh Day Adventists. He changed his views from their’s, developing his “God Family” thing, at a later point, though remaining anti-Trinitarian and legalistic. Armstrong also claimed descent to a bunch of royalty, including King David on his mother’s side (of course). However, so far as being an Apostle, a “successor” of anybody, he said that:
“... biblical truth had been lost from the first century and rediscovered by him in 1927. He wrote about himself as the ‘Elijah’ who would preach before the second advent of Jesus Christ. He also taught that he was unique in the human race as Christ’s new ‘Apostle’ and that he had ‘restored’ essential truths to Christianity. He championed his work in gloating terms... saying, ‘I candidly feel it may be the most important book since the Bible!’” (Walter Martin, Ed. Hank Hanegraaff, The Kingdom of the Cults, pg. 482).
From Armstrong directly:
“I know of no other who has ever become a founder of a religion... who ever came into the truth the way God brought me into it... God brought me through a process that erased former misknowledge — and, as it were, gave me a clear start from ‘scratch.’ I wonder if you realize that every truth of God, accepted as truth doctrine and belief in the Worldwide Church of God, came from Christ through me, or was finally approved and made official through me... I was appointed by Jesus Christ, the head of the church.” (Herbert Armstrong, “Personal From...” The Plain Truth (Feb. 1967): 47.)
On interpreting the scripture, it was “like a jigsaw puzzle that must be assembled piece by biblical piece... and since before AD 70, it has been entirely suppressed.” (H. Armstrong, “How far can you get from being a Prophet of Doom?” The Plain Truth (Oct/Nov 1977): 3.)
In other words, the truth of scripture was hidden until Armstrong came around to decode it. He is, basically, your “Believer 0”, a super believer, who knew more than 2,000 years of Christianity ever did, including how things will play out in the future. Though, of course, his predictions didn’t turn out so well.