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To: DouglasKC

“No, it’s not. The Lord Jesus Christ said this:”


This is Leviticus, and we are quite specifically “no longer under the law.”

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

And again, the covenant we are under is different from the covenant given to the children of Abraham:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Hence the reason:

“I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:”

Also, if you are going to follow the law, you must follow all of it:

Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Therefore, not only must you follow ALL the dietary laws and feasts, you must follow EVERY command. For example, you must not wear threads of mixed colors, etc.

“For example the word “unclean” here is a translation of the word “koinos”. It means ceremonially unclean..such as the priests pronouncing someone clean or unclean”


According to Strong’s dictionary, it means both “common” and, in the context of foods:

“by the Jews, unhallowed, profane, Levitically unclean.”

I’ll also add:

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

The same context is in Romans 14:

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things

Thus, all creatures of the Earth are for us to eat, so long as they are received in Thanksgiving.

“Act 10:14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.””


A good citation, since God commands Him to eat of both in the vision.

Compare:

Lev 11:44 For I am the LORD your God. You shall therefore consecrate yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

“In 2 Corinthians Paul quotes scripture that shows that he absolutely believes that the designation of akathartos still exists for the people of God:”


Akathartos is used broadly to refer to unclean foods, unclean objects, unclean spirits, unclean people, and unclean moral acts.

This is in the context of not fellowshipping with unbelievers in a religious sense, taking part in their sacrifices:

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Not to contradict his other statement, which regards it completely lawful to receive whatever is given to you during a feast:

1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

The question is in knowing whether or not it has been sacrified for idols or not. Thus, the difference is in participating in their rituals and acts, and eating whatever they offer, which you must deny for their sake, and not your own.

“There is no feast (heorte) called the last supper.”


Yet, this is exactly what we are commanded to observe, and, unlike what you claim, it is the only thing we are actually commanded to observe from anything in all of the New Testament, which is demonstratively practiced from the first century all the way to our own.

You have no historical or scriptural evidence for your position.

“Keeping the feasts of the Lord Jesus Christ was normal behavior for the first Christians.”


Demonstrably false, and even you know it, because you turn around and say:

“Scripture does, but you’re invested too much into the history, the tradition... In many ways you’re like those first Christians who turned away from the Lord and his doctrine.”

So which is it? Is Ignatius an apostate? Or did he celebrate all the Jewish feasts and obey the dietary laws? Remember, he dates from the first century, not 400 years apart, and only died near the end of the 1st century or a little into the second. That means, you have to make me believe that, while the Apostle John was still alive, a Bishop of the church had already fallen into heresy and had given up the Jewish feast days in exchange for the eeeevil sacrament of the Lord’s table.


109 posted on 12/27/2013 8:12:24 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
No, it’s not. The Lord Jesus Christ said this:” This is Leviticus, and we are quite specifically “no longer under the law.”

You have a gross misunderstanding of the law and the covenants if you believe that just because something appears in the book of Leviticus it's not applicable to Christians.

The food laws of the Lords really fall outside of any covenant. They existed long before Abraham existed and were in effect before the flood. For example:

Gen 7:2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;

Note that this is LONG before Abraham and LONG before the old covenant.

In addition, these designations exist in the future kingdom:

Isa 66:17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD.

Ironically this appears in the same chapter where you erroneously believed clearly dead bodies were really alive.

In addition, Christ NEVER taught that the food laws were done away with:

Act_10:14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."

These are the words of Peter and he said them 10 to 15 years after the death of Christ. Peter knew Jesus. Peter personally learned from Jesus. Peter was NEVER taught that the food laws were done away with. In other words, it's not a teaching of jesus Christ but is a tradition started by those, like yourself, who would deny the instruction of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also, if you are going to follow the law, you must follow all of it: Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Again you show a misunderstanding of scripture. IF we depend on the law for salvation, then we MUST keep perfectly every aspect. However that's not my case or anyone else who believe's through Christ. Remember, Paul was warning about those Jews who did NOT believe in Christ. They believed they could be justified by keeping the law. And they could if they could keep it perfectly, which of course is impossible.

“Keeping the feasts of the Lord Jesus Christ was normal behavior for the first Christians.” Demonstrably false, and even you know it, because you turn around and say:

I've shown you Paul's specific command to his flock to keep the feast of Passover and Unleavened bread. I can't help that you retroactively apply the scripture to a modern day practice. Even if I couldn't show you any more examples (and I can) then as a Christian then we should as Christ walked.

1Jn_2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John didn't say "walk as Christ walks...oh yeah, except when it comes to keeping the holy days he created and observed. We'll create out own in a couple hundred years and keep them. Oh, yeah, and that stuff that God wrote in the bible about food and that none of us violated? We'll get rid of that in a couple hundred years too."

Or how about Paul:

1Co_11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

No my friend, the simple truth is that you're heavily invested in tradition and simply can't see the truth when it hits you between the eyes.

Akathartos is used broadly to refer to unclean foods, unclean objects, unclean spirits, unclean people, and unclean moral acts. This is in the context of not fellowshipping with unbelievers in a religious sense, taking part in their sacrifices: 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The proper way to think of akathartos is to think of something that God designed as inherently unclean. Something that is unclean by nature as opposed to ceremony. Demons, sinners without Christ, sin, and the food that God has designated as unclean.

So which is it? Is Ignatius an apostate? Or did he celebrate all the Jewish feasts and obey the dietary laws? Remember, he dates from the first century, not 400 years apart, and only died near the end of the 1st century or a little into the second. That means, you have to make me believe that, while the Apostle John was still alive, a Bishop of the church had already fallen into heresy and had given up the Jewish feast days in exchange for the eeeevil sacrament of the Lord’s table

The fact that the bible and the doctrines of Christ began to be attacked in the 1st century isn't news. It's recorded in the bible:

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work,; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

Paul understood that there were those even then who were attempting to advocate the laws of the Lord were not in effect. Jesus warned against it:

Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Jesus is speaking of now, these times, and about the exact same philosophy of lawlessness you are advocating.

John saw the church being broken up in his lifetime and control wrested from those who loved the Lord to those who loved power and tradition:

3Jn 1:9 I wrote a letter to the congregation. But Diotrephes, who loves to be in charge, won't accept us.
3Jn 1:10 For this reason, when I come I will bring up what he's doing. He's not satisfied with saying malicious things about us. He also refuses to accept the believers we send as guests. He even tries to stop others who want to accept them and attempts to throw those people out of the congregation

If this could happen to a congregation (presumably) established by John then it's no wonder that things began ot go off the rails.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2Ti 4:4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

This is your Christianity today. You have heaped up tons of teachers and they've turned you to fables. You do the exact opposite of what Christ commanded. Keep these days holy. No, Lord, I'll keep these days because my teachers tell me this. Respect and keep my food laws. No Lord, I like pork and my teachers tell me it's okay. Don't keep pagan days. No Lord, I love easter and christmas and besides, my teachers says it's okay.

2Pe 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

So my friend you sit there and tell me that Christ doesn't mean any of those things he created, taught and lived. And you then take scriptures and apply traditional, modern interpretations to them which twists the message, meaning and intent.

You should be ashamed of yourself. But I know that one day you will repent when the scales fall from your eyes.

110 posted on 12/27/2013 8:59:51 PM PST by DouglasKC
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