Posted on 12/21/2013 11:13:29 AM PST by GonzoII
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Hebrews 6:4-6 reveals a rather unsettling truth: We can lose our state of grace and fall away from the Lord. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For those who teach what Calvinists call “the final perseverance of the saints,” this text presents real problems. Some will argue the above description only refers to people who “knew about the Lord,” but were never really saved to begin with. I have always wondered if those making that argument can really be satisfied with it. It seems the inspired author makes clear, almost to the point of redundancy, that he was speaking about those who have been saved and then “commit apostasy.” Another Protestant tack is to claim the author is presenting an impossible hypothetical. In other words, he’s saying it would be impossible to restore again to repentance one who had truly been baptized into Jesus Christ because it is impossible for such a person to fall away to begin with. This doesn’t work, either. The author is presenting a warning of the peril of falling away from the Lord. He would hardly warn his readers of something that is impossible to actually happen. Do Catholics Prove Too Much? Most “eternally secure” Protestants with whom I have spoken about these verses of Scripture end up acknowledging their case to be weak from the text alone. But when cornered, I have found almost invariably they attempt to turn the tables on me by claiming I prove too much as a Catholic. If this text is saying one can fall away, then it also says the one who falls away cannot be restored. This would be contrary to Catholic teaching. The greater context of the entire epistle gives us the answer to this apparent difficulty. Hebrews was written to… you guessed it… Hebrews. But more specifically to Hebrew Christians who were being tempted to go back to the Old Covenant priesthood, sacrifices, and other practices, like circumcision, in order to be saved. It is in this context—from start to finish—that the inspired author runs the gamut on Jewish belief showing how Christ is greater than and/or is the fulfillment of the entire Old Covenant. In chapters one and two, Jesus is revealed to be greater than the angels; he’s revealed to be God (see Hebrews 1:5-10). In chapters three and four, he is our true high priest, greater than Moses, and fulfillment of what the Sabbath symbolized (see 3:3; 4:2-11). In chapters five and seven, he is the antitype of Melchizadek (5:5-10; 7:11). In chapter eight, he is superior to and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant in establishing the New (8:8-13). In chapters nine and ten, he is superior to the temple and its sacrifices (9:23-24; 10:4-10). And it is in this context that the inspired author then exhorts his readers to endure the persecution that had already begun by this time (10:32-39). He calls them to “hold fast the confession of [their] hope without wavering” (10:23), and to remain faithful to the Church Jesus established rather than go back to an Old Covenant and its sacrifices that have no power to save (10:25-31; 12:18-25; 13:7-10). If we understand the greater context, we understand that the author of Hebrews is not saying it is impossible to be forgiven of the sin of apostasy; rather, it is impossible for those who “have tasted the heavenly gift” of the New Covenant and would then return to the Old Covenant to be saved. Why? Because they are trusting in a covenant, law, priesthood, sacrifice, and more that do not possess the power to save. They are returning to a well without water. If these same Hebrews, or by allusion anyone down through the centuries who may have apostatized, turn back to Christ and his Church trusting in the graces that alone come from the sacrifice of Christ, then of course they can be restored to a saving relationship with God. |
There you go again talking sense:) Loved your post. God Bless!
When they were in heaven, why would "salvation" even be a relevant matter?
The very essence of eternal life is being in a true relationship with the True Father & True Son:
3 Now this is eternal life: that they KNOW you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)
Surely, they so "knew" the Father & the Son?
Nor is there any record in Scripture that God offered a means of salvation to the angels.Therefore, the fallen angels were never saved from their fallenness so could not lose what they never had.
True, but again, I was referencing pre - fall; not post fall.
“.. that I shall lose none of all those he has given me..”
I have always been amazed at how one could be so certain of not losing their salvation because of verses like this one - that are based on the subjective mood. The Greek is carefully crafted so that misinterpretations can be prevented. Here “I shall lose none” denotes uncertainty... which is contradictive of your own certainty! No, God is not willing to lose even one that He has given Christ, but that doesn’t mean He doesn’t. He lost Judas in spite of His will to the contrary. (John 17:12)
This thread ended last Christmas! Been on a vacay??? ;o)
Still, I'm glad you asked. It really isn't just a few verses where "moods", tense, audience, condition, etc. influence the meaning of God's message and the assurance He gives to us. The central theme throughout the WHOLE Bible is that of God's grace. Judas never WAS a believer in Jesus. The Gospels are full of the fatal flaws of his so-called discipleship and his rejection of who Jesus was. Could he have gone and betrayed Him the way he did had he been a genuine believer in Jesus as the Messiah?
The assurance of our salvation comes NOT from what we have done or do, but in what Christ has done FOR us. A gift is by its nature free, unearned, undeserved, unmerited and given to us by God because of His great love. All the works we do can never pay the debt of the smallest sin we have committed.
And also, the context requires that at the date of writing, there were many Hebrews still alive who experience the cessation of the Old Covenant and its repetitive symbolic bloody sacrificial atonement rituals wholly fulfilled by God's complete satisfaction by the sacrifice, resurrection and ascension of the God-Kan Jesus; with the New Covenant having been immediately instituted.
Some Hebrew/Jews were able to make the transition from the old to the new, in either case of which salvation consusted of faith alone in Jehovah/Jesus alone. But other Jews, who through their life under the Law-based obedience to God were exposed to all the conditions listed in Hebrews 6:4-6, both in the old or in the new ways God dealt with mankind, rejected the subsitutionary death of Christ as their passage to Heaven, and thus had no other alternate options. Going back to the Law-based ritual sacrifice could no longer obtain God's forgiveness under it, and their rejection of Christ as a savior closed out all their options. Therefore, they had no way back to God after committing sin.
And that is still true of unbelieving Jews of this day. Their expectation is for a kingly messiah to come; and He will, but not to save unbelieving Jews who were/are blinded to the consequences and stipulations of the Cross-death of the itinerant preacher of righteousness.
We Gentiles can read Hebrews as a source of instruction on how God dealt with Jews (see Rom. 15:4), and benefit from the opening of God's kingdom to all the world and no longer just Jews, but it is wrong try to to apply the Jew-directed transactions of God as applying to regenerate Gentile of today across the board.
The pure Catholic heresy exposed.
One of the most valuable posts ever on Freerepublic! Thank you, Race for joining in.
Tim can’t be a convert. His plummet into Catholicism, the religion thereof not being Christianity, proves he was never a Christian sealed with GOD’s Holy Spirit. Perhaps that is why you like his spittlegeist so much?
Don’t take the mark of the beast when it is commanded to you, even if your Catholic Priest uses signs and lying wonders to emphasize his authority. Remember soon, don’t take the Mark.
+1
I come back here once every 3 or 4 months, forgot abou this post
:)
See you in the clouds, Bro.
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