Posted on 12/10/2013 5:23:53 AM PST by CynicalBear
It’s all Christ isn’t it. If people just realized that it’s faith alone in Christ alone. If they would just sincerely seek Him and ask Him to work in their heart and lives. Paul put it so succinctly to the jailor. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” as he understood that with a true reliance on Jesus the desires of our heart would change. All those actions they call works would spring from the Spirit within us for it is that which has changed. Washed by the shed blood of Jesus we have been set free of the guilt of sin. We stand before the Father having been fully pardoned and cleased.
I think we all need to keep in mind that this carnal flesh is not changed when we accept Christ as our savior. Paul said even he didn’t understand why it is that what he really wants to do he does not but that which he doesn’t want to do he does. That struggle between the flesh and the Spirit within us does not change instantly. Yes our desires to please God change but the flesh is still weak.
We don’t all grow in the Spirit at the same pace. For some that struggle seems more difficult than for others. We also need to understand that there are those who only outwardly confess either because of a momentary emotional need to belong or a fear of rejection by peers. There are even those who change their outward actions for appearance sake but who have not truly accepted Christ personally.
Yes we are to look for the fruits of the Spirit and avoid those who lack those fruits but it’s God who knows the heart. He will change that person from the inside out if that confession was sincere.
Outwardly “following the rules” does not save.
You seem to eerily familiar with what demons know and understand. I find no evidence in scripture for that understanding. Is there a source you are privy to that perhaps you could share?
Paul was in prison when he wrote that to the Colossians. His reference to “rejoicing in the sufferings” is most likely related to Christ’s words that they would suffer and endure afflictions for spreading His gospel. So Paul here is “rejoicing” because he felt it an honor to suffer for Christ and his body the church. Paul is also saying that his suffering doesn’t rise to the level of Christ’s suffering but is willing to go through or “be filled” with the same suffering as Christ if need be. Peter also referenced this.
1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye should suffer for righteousness' sake, blessed are ye: and fear not their fear, neither be troubled;
The apostles counted it a blessing to suffer for Christ and His body the church. Paul is saying that he is simply being filled with more of the same suffering Christ endured and like Peter believes he will be more blessed.
Therein lies the rub.
What’s the rub? The sincerity of one person’s confession has no relevance to our own salvation.
So Jesus didn't suffer enough...Jesus lacked in some of the afflictions that were done to him...What were those afflictions Jesus missed out on that you and Paul took over???
You don't care who you lie to, or about, do you???
I will pray that you come to Christ.
Words such as "false" "wrong" "error" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I appreciate that but the apparent intent to deceive is there...This person claimed I begged others to provide information and that’s a flat out lie...How does one respond to a false accusation like that???
I understand the apostles’ joy at tribulation. And I understand that in itself is something God provides.
You said, “Paul is also saying that his suffering doesn’t rise to the level of Christ’s suffering but is willing to go through or “be filled” with the same suffering as Christ if need be.” Would you take the time to explain how you come to that conclusion from the construct of Paul’s sentence? I’m not a Greek scholar, but I don’t usually have trouble following Paul’s writings.
Your interpretation fits better with other scripture than what I’ve gotten from that sentence. I just need to understand how you derive that from the sentence.
Thank you for your patience.
Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoicing in the sufferings for you and I am filling up that which is lacking of the tribulation of Christ in the flesh of me the body of him which is the church. Colossians 1:24 I know what you mean by “the construct of the sentence”. I have found that when I have a “sense” about a verse or even sometimes question a typical interpretation or view it’s best to first go to the Greek and the understanding of phrases and words during that time. But then we also need to consider the rest of scripture as it may pertain to that subject. In this case we can dismiss out of hand the Catholic view since we know there is nothing lacking in Christ’s completeness.
Paul mentions the suffering several times in his writing and seems to identify with that suffering. Probably due in part to his own contributions to that suffering as he mentions how he was one of those who persecuted the Christians. In that respect he undoubtedly has a more intimate knowledge or awareness of the suffering. He identifies with the suffering servant in his writing as well. Paul keenly wanted to follow Christ’s example as Peter mentions.
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Paul always “gave it his all” whether he was persecuting Christians or whether he was evangelizing for Christ. It seems his personality was to go all out. So in this passage Paul repeats the root of to fill to stress that the aim of his personal sacrifice—I fill up [antanapleroo] in my flesh—is to complete his mission: to present to you the word of God in its fullness [plerosai].
Simply say something like “That accusation is false and baseless. I have never ...”
Thank you. I actually look for errors and discrepancies in Scripture. First of all I know from experience that God’s Word will defend itself
If I find error or discrepancies it means (1) I am misreading the passage in question or (2) what I think I know about other sections of Scripture is incorrect or (3) there is a piece I’m missing that allows the apparent contradiction to be true or (4) there is a mystery at work that I have not become privy to.
I promise to dig into your analysis. I have read many a dissertation on that passage and have not once come away believing the author hit the mark.
OK, will do...
This is the way I see it:
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind of the
afflictions of Christ in my flesh
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake
Act 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
Act 20:23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
2Co 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
2Co 1:6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
It is never said in the scriptures that Jesus did not suffer enough...Nowhere...Jesus suffered enough that we don't have to suffer at all...
Paul took joy in suffering for Jesus and although he suffered greatly, he felt Jesus was too light on him...He deserved and was willing to take more...
This should be enough scripture to provide anyone a suitable answer to the scripture in question...
I believe God writes scripture the way he does just to trip up those who try to pervert and corrupt his words; those one verse wonders who have built a religion on a single or part of a verse...
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Well done. It seems to me that Paul may have carried around some guilt for having persecuted the Christians and felt a need to suffer for Christ along with his joy of serving also.
I would think the same thing...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.