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To: CynicalBear
Who's contorting? You are preemptively denying the very possibility that the Catholic Church is using the word "God" or "gods" in a Biblical way. Having made a prior judgment without evidence, you proceed to reject any interpretation based on actual definitions found in Scripture and in the Catholic Church.

First, you have failed to clarify what you THINK the Catholic Church is guilty of: is it polytheism (many gods), or is it a assimilation/annihilation (one God into whom everybody is merged)? ... Or is it something else --- some third or fourth concept distinguishable from the two mentioned above?

Evidence, please.

Second, you have ignored the crucial difference between "Person" and Nature." We believe we are called to participate in the divine nature. We do not become divine Persons. That would make a difference, wouldn't it?

Third, you ignore Scriptural uses of the word God or gods, which illustrate that one is not always talking about polytheism or idolatry.

I'll give examples:

Look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses.

Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from context that “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, men who hold positions of authority. Calling a human magistrate a “god” means he has civil authority over others, and he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

Check out when God sent Moses to Pharaoh: "And the Lord said to Moses, Lo! I have made thee the god of Pharaoh; and Aaron, thy brother, shall be thy prophet." Wycliffe Bible (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, the messenger of God andspeaking God’s words, would thus be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

Fast forward and check out how Jesus uses Pslam 82. Jesus had just said he's the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The Jews then charge Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If a mere man who holds a divinely appointed office can be spoken of as “god,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

This illustrates that "god" and "gods" are used (although rarely) in analogical senses in the OT and the NT. They do not mean a personal equality or identity with the Supreme Being; they mean, holding a share of God's authority, BY His authority.

In none of the above usages is polytheism implied. These are the Scriptural senses in which the Church understands the concept of divinization.

If you had not excluded all these Biblical precedents from the outset, you would not have latched exclusively onto the misunderstanding that Catholics believe in polytheism. You ought to go after the ones who have deviated most radically from Christian Orthodoxy into real polytheism: people like Kenneth Hagin, Creflo Dollar, and Benny Hinn.

102 posted on 12/03/2013 11:23:58 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (There is none holy like the LORD; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. - Samuel)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
First you make a statement like this.

“First, you have failed to clarify what you THINK the Catholic Church is guilty of:”

Then later in the post you make this statement.

“you would not have latched exclusively onto the misunderstanding that Catholics believe in polytheism.”

I have simply, to a comment about Crouch claiming to be a god, shown that others do that also. I have found it fascinating that I have received outright denials that the CC teaches that. I have made no judgment as to that teaching. The comment about Crouch, which didn’t come from me, was a comment of condemnation for that view. Simply showing that the CC also teaches that men become gods brought about some rather harsh toned responses and denials.

>> Third, you ignore Scriptural uses of the word God or gods,<<

No, I didn’t. I didn’t address the scriptural uses other than to point out that the New Testament examples refer to more a partner arrangement.

As you have pointed out, scripture itself points to the use of gods when referring to men. In fact, in the passage from Psalm 82:1 uses the exact Hebrew word “Elohim” for both God referring to the one triune God and also for men.

Again as you pointed out, the use of the term “blasphemy” so flippantly or denial of both scripture and what the CC teaches are both dangerous. As it turns out you and I are indeed on the same page here. I sincerely hope that we have illustrated that knee jerk accusations or denials are ill advised. I will also point out the need for holding scripture alone as our guide and sole source for ultimate truth. I alone is the infallible word of God. You illustrated that truth by using scripture as the final authority. Now, how about we do that with other teachings of the CC? And yes, the likes of Kenneth Hagin, Creflo Dollar, and Benny Hinn and others regardless of what “church” they claim to belong to.

104 posted on 12/03/2013 12:20:58 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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