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Radio Replies Second Volume - Catholic Apostolic Church or Irvingites
Catholic Apologetics Online ^ | 1940 | Fathers Rumble & Carty

Posted on 11/24/2013 4:10:22 AM PST by GonzoII

Catholic Apostolic Church or Irvingites

1308. Do you recognise the "Catholic Apostolic Church" of the Irvingites?

We recognize it merely as a comparatively new Protestant sect which really commenced its existence in 1835.

1309. How did this Church originate?

Its history must begin with the Rev. Edward Irving who was born in 1792. Irving became a Presbyterian minister who preached with great success in Glasgow and London. He was of a mystical turn of mind, and got deeply interested in Biblical prophecies. As a result he began to preach the imminent coming of Christ, enkindling considerable excitement.In 1833 he was deposed and expelled from the Presbyterian Church for heretical teachings about Christ, but the majority of his congregation adhered to him, and a new form of Protestantism was developed. Irving thought that the special gifts of the Holy Ghost to the early Christians, and even the Apostolate itself, were restored to him and to his followers as a preparation for the Second Coming of Christ. He died in 1834. In the following year his followers organized what they called the "Catholic and Apostolic Church," under the fond delusion that the mere taking of these names would indeed render them Catholic and Apostolic. In reality, as I have said, they but formed a new Protestant sect.

1310. What are their main doctrines?

The Irvingites accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God, and the Apostles', Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds. They believe also in the gift of tongues and the spirit of prophecy in their midst,and live in expectation of the early coming of Christ. Tithing is part of their religion, or the giving to the Church by every member of one-tenth of his earthly goods. Their worship is based on the Eucharist, but they deny the Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation. In 1842 they drew up a liturgy based on Greek,Roman, and Anglican rites, making use of Catholic Mass vestments.

1311. If it is an Episcopal Church, are its Orders valid?

The Irvingites are vaguely episcopal, though they have no Bishops in the ordinary sense of the word. They believe in a fourfold ministry of prophets, apostles, evangelists, and pastors. According to them, their apostles alone can minister the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and alone have final doctrinal authority. Their apostles, therefore, would be equivalent in their view to Bishops. They claim that this ministry is valid if only by virtue of the direct communication of the Holy Spirit,independently of any need of uninterrupted transmission from the Apostles. But the whole thing is a structure of religious imagination opposed to the teachings of the New Testament. And the Catholic Church certainly rejects their Orders as invalid, and the sect as but another peculiar form of Protestantism.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: catholic; radiorepliesvoltwo

Historical Context of "Radio Replies"



By markomalley

If one recalls the time frame from which Radio Replies emerged, it can explain some of the frankness and lack of tact in the nature of the responses provided.

It was during this timeframe that a considerable amount of anti-Catholic rhetoric came to the forefront, particularly in this country. Much of this developed during the Presidential campaign of Al Smith in 1928, but had its roots in the publication of Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons, originally published in book form in 1919 and also published in pamphlet form in 1853.

While in Britain (and consequently Australia), the other fellow would surely have experienced the effects of the Popery Act, the Act of Settlement, the Disenfranchising Act, the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, and many others since the reformation (that basically boiled down to saying, "We won't kill you if you just be good, quiet little Catholics"). Even the so-called Catholic Relief Acts (1778, 1791, 1829, 1851, 1871) still had huge barriers placed in the way.

And of course, they'd both remember the American Protective Association, "Guy Fawkes Days" (which included burning the Pontiff in effigy), the positions of the Whigs and Ultra-Torries, and so on.

A strong degree of "in your face" from people in the position of authoritativeness was required back in the 1930s, as there was a large contingent of the populations of both the US and the British Empire who were not at all shy about being "in your face" toward Catholics in the first place (in other words, a particularly contentious day on Free Republic would be considered a mild day in some circles back then). Sure, in polite, educated circles, contention was avoided (thus the little ditty about it not being polite to discuss religion in public, along with sex and politics), but it would be naive to assume that we all got along, or anything resembling that, back in the day.

Having said all of the above, reading the articles from the modern mindset and without the historical context that I tried to briefly summarize above, they make challenging reading, due to their bluntness.

The reader should also keep in mind that the official teaching of the Church takes a completely different tone, best summed up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324

269 UR 3 § 1.
270 Cf. CIC, can. 751.
271 Origen, Hom. in Ezech. 9,1:PG 13,732.
272 UR 3 § 1.
273 LG 8 § 2.
274 UR 3 § 2; cf. LG 15.
275 Cf. UR 3.
276 Cf. LG 8.
322 LG 15.
323 UR 3.
324 Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.

1 posted on 11/24/2013 4:10:22 AM PST by GonzoII
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To: All

The Radio Replies Series: Volume One

The Radio Replies Series: Volume Two

Chapter One: God

Radio Replies Volume Two: Proof of God's Existence
Radio Replies Volume Two: God's Nature
Radio Replies Volume Two: Supreme Control Over All Things and the Problem of Suffering and Evil

Chapter Two: Man

Radio Replies Volume Two: Destiny of Man/Death
Radio Replies Volume Two: Immortality of Man's Soul & Pre-existence Denied
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Human Free Will
Radio Replies Volume Two: Determinism Absurd

Chapter Three: Religion

Radio Replies Volume Two: Necessity of Religion
Radio Replies Volume Two: Salvation of the Soul
Radio Replies Volume Two: Voice of Science
Radio Replies Volume Two: Religious Racketeers
Radio Replies Volume Two: Divine Revelation

Radio Replies Volume Two: Revealed Mysteries
Radio Replies Volume Two: Existence of Miracles

Chapter Four: The Religion of the Bible

Radio Replies Volume Two: Gospels Historical
Radio Replies Volume Two: Missing Books of the Bible
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Bible Inspired
Radio Replies Volume Two: Biblical Account of Creation
Radio Replies Volume Two: New Testament Problems

Radio Replies Volume Two: Supposed Contradictions in Sacred Scripture

Chapter Five: The Christian Faith

Radio Replies Volume Two: Source of Christian Teaching
Radio Replies Volume Two: Jewish Rejecton of Christ
Radio Replies Volume Two: Christianity a New Religion
Radio Replies Volume Two: Rational Foundation for Belief
Radio Replies Volume Two: Causes of Unbelief

Chapter Six: A Definite Christian Faith

Radio Replies Volume Two: Divisions Amongst Christians
Radio Replies Volume Two: Schisms Unjustified
Radio Replies Volume Two: Facing the Problem
Radio Replies Volume Two: Wrong Approach
Radio Replies Volume Two: Is One Religion as Good as Another?

Radio Replies Volume Two: Obligation of Inquiry
Radio Replies Volume Two: Charity and Tolerance

Chapter Seven: The Protestant Reformation

Radio Replies Volume Two: Meaning of "Protestant"
Radio Replies Volume Two: Causes of the Reformation
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Reaction
Radio Replies Volume Two: Reformers Mistaken
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Idealization of Protestantism
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Catholic Estimate

Chapter Eight: The Truth of Catholicism

Radio Replies Volume Two: Meaning of the Word "Church"
Radio Replies Volume Two: Origin of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Catholic Claim
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Roman Hierarchy
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Pope

Radio Replies Volume Two: The Petrine Text
Radio Replies Volume Two: St. Peter's Supremacy
Radio Replies Volume Two: St. Peter in Rome
Radio Replies Volume Two: Temporal Power
Radio Replies Volume Two: Infallibility

Radio Replies Volume Two: Unity of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Holiness of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholicity of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Apostolicity of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Indefectibility of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Obligation to be a Catholic

Chapter Nine: The Church and the Bible

Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Attitude Towards the Bible
Radio Replies Volume Two: Is Bible Reading Forbidden to Catholics?
Radio Replies Volume Two: Protestant Bibles
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Douay Version
Radio Replies Volume Two: Principle of Private Interpretation

Radio Replies Volume Two: Need of Tradition
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church

Chapter Ten: The Dogmas of the Church

Radio Replies Volume Two: Revolt Against Dogma
Radio Replies Volume Two: Value of a Creed
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Divine Gift of Faith
Radio Replies Volume Two: Faith and Reason
Radio Replies Volume Two: The "Dark Ages"

Radio Replies Volume Two: The Claims of Science
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Holy Trinity
Radio Replies Volume Two: Creation and Evolution
Radio Replies Volume Two: Angels
Radio Replies Volume Two: Devils

Radio Replies Volume Two: Man
Radio Replies Volume Two: Reincarnation
Radio Replies Volume Two: Sin
Radio Replies Volume Two: Christ
Radio Replies Volume Two: Mary

Radio Replies Volume Two: Grace and Salvation
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Sacraments [Baptism]
Radio Replies Volume Two: Confession
Radio Replies Volume Two: Holy Eucharist
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Sacrifice of the Mass

Radio Replies Volume Two: Holy Communion
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Catholic Priesthood
Radio Replies Volume Two: Marriage and Divorce
Radio Replies Volume Two: Extreme Unction
Radio Replies Volume Two: Judgment

Radio Replies Volume Two: Hell
Radio Replies Volume Two: Purgatory
Radio Replies Volume Two: Indulgences
Radio Replies Volume Two: Heaven
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Resurrection of the Body

Radio Replies Volume Two: The End of the World

Chapter Eleven: The Church and Her Moral Teachings

Radio Replies Volume Two: Conscience
Radio Replies Volume Two: Truth
Radio Replies Volume Two: Scandal
Radio Replies Volume Two: Tolerance
Radio Replies Volume Two: Censorship

Radio Replies Volume Two: The Inquisition
Radio Replies Volume Two: Astrology
Radio Replies Volume Two: Other Superstitions
Radio Replies Volume Two: Attendance at Mass
Radio Replies Volume Two: Sex Education

Radio Replies Volume Two: Attitude to "Free Love"
Radio Replies Volume Two: Abortion
Radio Replies Volume Two: Suicide

Chapter Twelve: The Church in Her Worship

Radio Replies Volume Two: Magnificent Edifices
Radio Replies Volume Two: Lavish Ritual
Radio Replies Volume Two: Women in Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholics and "Mother's Day
Radio Replies Volume Two: Liturgical Days

Radio Replies Volume Two: Burial Rites
Radio Replies Volume Two: Candles and Votive Lamps
Radio Replies Volume Two: Rosary
Radio Replies Volume Two: Lourdes Water
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Scapular

Chapter Thirteen: The Church and Social Welfare

Radio Replies Volume Two: Social Influence of the Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Education Question
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Church and World Distress
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Attitude Towards Capitalism
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Remedy for Social Ills

Radio Replies Volume Two: Communism Condemned
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Fascist State
Radio Replies Volume Two: Morality of War
Radio Replies Volume Two: May Individuals Become Soldiers?
Radio Replies Volume Two: The Church and Peace

Radio Replies Volume Two: Capital Punishment
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Action

Chapter Fourteen: Comparative Study of Non-Catholic Denominations

Radio Replies Volume Two: Defections From the Catholic Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Gnosticism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Manichaeism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Arianism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Nestorianism

Radio Replies Volume Two: Eutychianism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Coptic Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Greek Orthodox Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: Anglican Episcopal Church
Radio Replies Volume Two: The "Free" or "Nonconformist" Churches

Radio Replies Volume Two: Presbyterianism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Methodism
Radio Replies Volume Two: Church of Christ
Radio Replies Volume Two: Baptists
Radio Replies Volume Two: Seventh Day Adventists

Radio Replies Volume Two: Plymouth Brethren
Radio Replies Volume Two: Catholic Apostolic Church or Irvingites

2 posted on 11/24/2013 4:12:05 AM PST by GonzoII (Ted Cruz/Susana Martinez 2016)
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3 posted on 11/24/2013 4:13:37 AM PST by GonzoII (Ted Cruz/Susana Martinez 2016)
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