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To: CynicalBear
>> Even the trib saints will be saved by Grace through faith.<< Could you show the scripture that shows that?

Prophecy is not conclusive the Temple sacrifice will be directed by God or the anti-christ. Remember it is possible even the Jews who rebuild the Temple may be deceived and think the anti-christ is the Christ. What we know from Daniel and Jesus' own prophecies is there will be a third temple and the desolation will occur.

We also know from Revelation that there will be martrys for Christ and they are called 'saints' as well.

First from Revelation 6:

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Then here in Revelation 13:

7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

So we know there will be believers 'saints' and they are called our brothers and sisters. If we look at Revelation 11 on the two witnesses it says they will give "testimony." Testimony to what? Temple Mosaic Law worship or the tesimony given by the apostles in the NT of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

We then see in Revelation 9 many will NOT repent and continue loving their sin and the world:

20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

What are they not accepting here? Are they rejecting temple worship to God or God's plan of salvation through faith in trust in the shed Blood of Christ. We see the saints and eventually the two witnesses are murdered for giving testimony. What testimony is it? The temple worship or the shed Blood of Christ. Given the large amount of OT and NT evidence that message or testimony will be the same one proclaimed at Pentecost, to Cornelius, and in all the epistles.

Yes I do agree left or right on the timeline of the Cross it has always been about deliverance through the Son of God. We know this today because we are on this side of the Cross and Empty Tomb.

137 posted on 11/24/2013 11:56:25 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter; smvoice
>> Prophecy is not conclusive the Temple sacrifice will be directed by God or the anti-christ.<<

Who directs that the Temple be rebuilt for the time of the last seven years of the 490 years promised the Israelites in Daniel’s prophecy? Never before have the Israelites worshiped any other but God when following the Temple worship per God’s instructions. At the midway point of the Tribulation the anti Christ STOPS the sacrifice. If they were worshiping him why would he do that?

>> We also know from Revelation that there will be martrys for Christ and they are called 'saints' as well.

I don’t think anyone disputes that. There were those in the Old Testament also who were martyred for their faith in God and adherence to His laws.<<

>>If we look at Revelation 11 on the two witnesses it says they will give "testimony." Testimony to what? Given the large amount of OT and NT evidence that message or testimony will be the same one proclaimed at Pentecost, to Cornelius, and in all the epistles. <<

That would be speculation of course. As a matter for consideration the two witnesses prophesy as opposed to proclaim “the same one proclaimed at Pentecost”. By definition it would seem to me they are prophesying what is to befall the world rather than proclaim the gospel.

REVELATION 11: 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

143 posted on 11/24/2013 12:47:40 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter
What are they not accepting here? Are they rejecting temple worship to God or God's plan of salvation through faith in trust in the shed Blood of Christ.

They reject the former as part of the obedience of faith, like as some reject moral laws today, because they reject the latter. Like as,

But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. (Luke 19:14)

Why else will the Lord need to rule the nations with a rod of iron?

And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Zechariah 14:17-18)

175 posted on 11/24/2013 3:34:34 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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