Posted on 11/21/2013 11:02:12 AM PST by redleghunter
Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.
(Excerpt) Read more at gty.org ...
What gospel do you think Peter preached in Acts 10 to Cornelius the Gentile? Was it Grace or repentance.
Paul later in Acts in his sermons (after chapter 15) tells the hearers both Jew and Greek to repent. That can be found in Acts 17 and Acts 20. Then when Paul heads back to Jerusalem he summarizes his ministry by saying he preached all should repent. That can be found in Acts 26.
If you would, continue past the 1 Corinthians 15 quote to this:
1 Corinthians 15:5-11 NASB
and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
Isn't Paul admitting here that all aforementioned preached the same Gospel?
We know that Paul said his commission was not to baptize. I give that double barrels to the Romans. However 1 Corinthians still tells us believers are baptized in water. What changed? Did Peter institute the first believers baptism with Cornelius before Paul started his ministry?
By your view of two gospels, I am assuming you believe the Holy Spirit indwelled both repentance kingdom gospel Jews and Grace gospel believers? Does that make them one or two bodies in Christ? Paul spoke a lot about one Head which is Christ and we are the members of His Body.
I will offer that if we look closely at the historical event of Pentecost and understand the scriptures Peter quotes and links to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, it is the same Gospel clearly outlined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Same if we look closely at Acts 3. Later we see Philip leading the Ethiopian to Christ using Isaiah 53. Some call Isaiah 53 the Gospel according to Isaiah. The scriptural evidence is there is one Christ, one gospel (the one He gave see Luke 24), one Holy Spirit and One Body.
If it's alright with you, I'm going to start calling you Linus. This whole thread reminds me of "Charlie Brown Christmas", arguing over each other, frustration, impatience, to the point that the whole POINT gets lost. And here you stand saying "I know. I know what the dispensation of the grace of God is." And you present the link and your input. Bravo!
"It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visionS and revelationS of the Lord."(2 Cor.12:1).
Paul did not receive a single revelation from the risen Christ, he received several revelations from Him. Which as he received, was given by him to believers and received from him.
"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."(1 Cor. 4:16). We are to follow Paul as he followed Christ. WHY?
"Howbeit, for this cause I obtained mercy, that IN ME FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a PATTERN to them which should HEREAFTER believe on him to life everlasting." (1 TIm. 1:16). Paul is our pattern to follow. As he followed Christ's revelationS concerning the dispensation of the grace of God and all that that incurred.
I don't know exactly what it is, but I have always held a particular affinity for John's works. While his are undoubtedly the most spiritual of the new testament books, with many layers and dimensions upon contemplation, they are also the most simplistic and straightforward, and exude above all, the love of John for His Master. That balance of simplicity in complication, asceticism in reality, delivered with personal closeness and calming love is something to be greatly admired. People dwell too much in Peter and Paul, and not enough in John, I think.
We are no longer under the condemnation of the law and no lonter fear it, we now love it because we know it is Holy because it came from God's Heart, and now that we are a new creature we love it because He loved us first. The fire (the law) no longer burns us in judgement, it is now like a fire place keeping us warm in our homes, a companion not an enemy.
That is a really great statement - When one is within the House of YHWH one will naturally keep His way, just as one keeps the ways of one's earthly father. The things of my father I could not understand, I one time rebelled against, even as my children rebelled against me... But with age and pain and experience, I came to find out the wisdom of my father, and those very things which once caused rebellion in me I now follow and honor, and I praise my father for having shown them to me... Right living. Sometimes right living doesn't look right until one experiences the long run.
So it is with our Father - The longer I have lived, and the harder I bucked against the traces, the more I hurt myself and those around me. With age comes wisdom, and now I long for peace... And peace comes from YHWH. Every_word_out_of_His_Mouth. When I keep His ways, and hearken to Him, I find peace, comfort, joy and love. In that, Torah is a fire that warms me, as you said - but it is still the very law that will convict the Fallen Ones, and all who follow in their way.
Thanks for your reply.
No one has argued against Paul receiving direct revelations from the Risen Christ. Just the unfounded claims Paul preached a different gospel.
The link provided is based on a premise that Paul differed from Peter in not preaching repentance. That is easily refuted just in Acts. Please see my post on that above. In at least three places in Acts Paul preaches repentance.
No, the premise is that Peter and Paul differed in what the remission of sin entails. For Peter it was “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins” and for Paul it was “Christ died for our sins” and THAT in itself, when believed, was the remission of our sins.
You are correct and don’t let others ‘try’ to deceive you as they are deceived. They all preached the same gospel as there is only one for those with spiritual eyes and ears. Lacking that, deception enters in.
I often wondered how there would be a great fallen away, now I get a glimpse at it. Indeed, it is the last days.
Yes, that site is the ‘religion’ of some here taught by man. Just glancing at it for 5 minutes, I witnessed the exact same point of deception that some swallowed here and trying to convince others of it. You did a good job of exposing it by refuting it with Truth.
..let me take a guess here...you believe speaking in tongues is for today..
I pointed out the link source you said “BRAVO” to is in error. The “author” of the piece starts his argument with saying Paul did not preach repentance. That is clearly false which sets the remainder of his information in doubt. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump.”
I ask you review Acts 2 and Acts 3 again. If Peter is not preaching the cross and empty tomb, then I am at a loss for words. That same message, good news, gospel is found in 1 Corinthians 15. And in 1 Corinthians 15 Paul clearly states all of them (the apostles) “Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”
Let me take a guess, you don’t BELIEVE what JESUS preached.
lol, gee, I wonder how I KNEW that...word of knowledge, perhaps? NO, just following 2 Tim.2:15.
I’m pointing out to you that you BELIEVE that author is in error. And I ask you to review Acts 2 and 3 again. It isn’t hard. One word at a time.
Even tho one can not find the word repent in the Epistles of Paul, it stands to reason (to me) that belief in Jesus Christ is repentance...
It's not me you are referring to...I believe the gospel of Paul who is the one that wrote that truth...
Perhaps you could prove some of the errors, with scripture...
You didn’t KNOW anything except what ‘man’ teaches!! Without KNOWING the WORD you are lost. Your constant mantra of correctly dividing the Word - while you divided it in two or three perhaps. I didn’t read the thread yet.
Not surprising, the one claiming others are not doing it is the very one that isn’t.
Because that's 'the religion' of some.
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