Posted on 11/21/2013 11:02:12 AM PST by redleghunter
Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.
(Excerpt) Read more at gty.org ...
Don't apologize,the bloke in my mirror is nodding profusely!
I did and thank you for posting it. Paul never claims to be the sole heir of unlocking the mystery. If we look closely to Peters sermons in Acts 2&10 we see Peter connecting the dots of the mystery quite nicely by invoking the Scriptures the Jews knew all too well. And he goes in a more bit detail with Cornelius because he was a Gentile. We see the same Bereans we all love to quote and rightly too in Acts 17 diligently searching the scriptures. The very same scriptures Peter and Paul and Philip invoke. The Jews understood the types and shadows of Messiah in the scriptures and both Peter and Paul pointed out this was Jesus Christ.
What is the term "gospel"? GOOD NEWS. God has been giving good news since the fall of Adam. THAT is what the Bible is all about: God's GOOD NEWS to man.
So, what is "the mystery of the gospel;" WHAT was SECRET of the good news? How could a holy and righteous God proclaim good news to sinners? How could He JUSTLY offer them good things to come when, as sinners, they DESERVED His wrath? The answer is found in the epistles of PAUL.
If anything is made clear in the Pauline epistles it is the act that the secret of all GOd's good news to man is centered in CALVARY. It was because Christ was to die for sin that God could proclaim good news to sinners, whether it concerned the bringing in of the millennial kingdom, the blessing of the nations THROUGH Abraham's seed (Israel) or the final defeat of Satan.
It was not until some time after the crucifixion, however, that the SECRET of the gospel was revealed TO AND THROUGH THE APOSTLE PAUL, and with IT the best news of all: "THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD."
The proclamation of "the gospel of the grace of God" was the natural accompaniment to the revelation of the cross as the SECRET of God's good news. THAT'S why Paul calls his DISTINCTIVE MESSAGE both "the gospel of the grace of God"(Acts 20:24) AND "the preaching of the cross" (1 Cor. 1:18), for the "gospel of the grace of God" IS "the preaching of the cross", as GOOD NEWS. IT is the proclamation of the OVER-ABOUNDING GRACE OF GOD TO MAN THROUGH THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST, and in Paul's epistles EVERYTHING CENTERS IN THE CROSS.
According to Paul, through the Holy Spirit, "we have REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD"(Eph. 1:7), we are "JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD" (ROm. 5:9), "RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON"(ROm.5:10), "MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST"(Eph. 2:13) and "MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM" because "GOD HATH MADE HIM TO BE SIN FOR US" (2 Cor. 5:21).
BUT, we MUST be careful NOT TO ASSUME that PREDICTIONS concerning the crucifixion are the SAME AS "the preaching of the cross" or that "the preaching of the cross" has nothing to do with the mystery simply because the crucifixion itself was prophesied.
PREDICTIONS concerning the DEATH OF CHRIST are to be found in NUMEROUS OT passages AS WELL AS in the FOUR RECORDS of CHRIST'S EARTHLY MINISTRY. But NEVER, repeat,NEVER WERE THE MERITS OF CHRIST'S DEATH PROCLAIMED AS THE GROUND OF SALVATION UNTIL PAUL.The difficulty is that SO much has been READ INTO Scripture which is NOT THERE. SEE PETER'S PENTECOST SERMON FOR A GREAT ILLUSTRATION OF THIS.
John the Baptist NEVER proclaimed the merits of Christ as the Lamb of God, bearing away the sin of the world as the ground of salvation. If he knew that, why was his call "repent and be baptized for the remission of sin"? Nor did the 12. Even AFTER the crucifixion, the apostles did NOT immediately see the death of Christ as the SECRET OF THE GOSPEL. Peter REFERRED to the crucifixion, but he DID NOT OFFER IT FOR SALVATION. He BLAMED his hearers for the death of Christ and DEMANDED REPENTANCE AND WATER BAPTISM FOR THE REMISSION OF THEIR SINS (Acts 2:3638).
Philip did NOT preach the cross to the eunuch as the SECRET OF THE GOSPEL. The eunuch had been reading Isa. 53. Philip then PREACHED Christ from that passage, proving from it that the crucified Jesus was indeed the Messiah, whose coming Isaiah had predicted. Read it carefully. NOWHERE does it say that Philip instructed the eunuch that CHRIST HAD DIED FOR HIM, or that the eunuch should TRUST IN HIS DEATH FOR SALVATION. Philip simply identified Jesus as Messiah from that passage, and baptized the eunuch when he confessed: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God" (Acts8:37).
And while you're reading, go back an read ONCE AGAIN Peter's Pentecost message. And find where HE PREACHED the cross as the means of remission of sin and salvation.
Whereas Peter at Pentecost had ACCUSED his hearers of crucifying Christ and had DEMANDED repentance and baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS (Acts2:23,36,38), Paul proclaimed the crucifixion of Christ AS GOOD NEWS (1 Cor. 1:18) and revealed that His death was our remission of our sins. WIth Peter at Pentecost it was a matter of SHAME; Paul GLORIED in it (Gal. 6:14).
Paul, the chief of sinners, saved by grace, OFFERS the cross as the SOLE GROUND OF REMISSION OF SINS(ROm.3:24).
The simple fact is that it was not UNTIL PAUL that Christ's death for sin was proclaimed as GOOD NEWS and seen as the SECRET of ALL the GOOD NEWS that had gone before.
The FACT of Christ's death for the sins of others was "testified beforehand"(1 Pet. 1:11), but Paul, by REVELATION, makes it VERY CLEAR that the ETERNAL PURPOSE OF GOD IN THAT DEATH and the OFFER OF SALVATION TO ALL THROUGH ITS MERITS WAS TO BE:"...TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME, whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle..."(1 Tim. 2:6,7).
Of course...
But I don't think so, so much...Conforming to the Torah requires a lot of work of the flesh...Being led of the Spirit is a whole 'nother ball game...
That is odd... because conforming to the traditions of Christendom also require a lot of 'work of the flesh'... One just doesn't consider it such because one is used to it. Think about it.
And 'works of the flesh' btw, are not all bad... it is the assumption that one will find them salvific that brings the problem. 'Go and sin no more' naturally implies works.
For those in Christ, that's true...
What else is there: What else has there ever been? It has always been about saving the children of Adam, eh?
God's wife in the Old Testament left him...Jesus' bride in the New Testament is the church...In the Old Testament, the wife could not keep the laws of the Father's house...Jesus became the Sacrifice because he knew they(Jews) and we (Gentiles) couldn't keep the laws...He traded his life for our inability to keep the laws...
No, YHWH divorced one of His wives... but has sworn to remarry her... That is what Rom 7 is all about. And 'couldn't is different than 'didn't'...
And no, He didn't die because He knew we couldn't keep them... He died so we would be able to keep them. When we have His righteousness, we will all keep them by nature.
It's not that we are lawless, it's that we fail at it so much...Jesus took care of that problem...
What is lawlessness except being without the law? He did not die so that criminals could continue to be criminals... That is the great dichotomy. Without law there is no sin. without law, there is no iniquity, no wickedness.... and the liberal protestants have it right. Without the law backing up the sense of the BIG 2 you get 'Love God-daddy and be nice.' = Liberal Protestantism. Antinomianism. Whatever-you-wantism. == Laodicea
Jesus did fulfill the law...But looking at the rest of those verses, if my righteousness (under the law) doesn't exceed that of the scribes and pharisees, I will never see the Kingdom...And in that case, I'm a lost cause...I can give up now because it's way too late...
Nah... you know better than that : ) And keeping the Torah has never been salvific.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Right... but whom *ever* was justified by the law? Again, and again... That is not it's purpose, nor has it ever been.
There's all kinds of instruction all over the NT to walk uprightly and do those/or not those things contained in the law...I don't get where you think Christians feel they can act as tho they never had a personal experience with Jesus Christ and no change in their spirit has taken place...
First, you will not find *anything* changed in the Torah by the NT, necessarily, or Yeshua changed the Torah, which cannot be, or He is a false prophet - So the precepts found in the NT cannot be changes... Christian interpretation does not take that into consideration. And my point in this is about knowledge, not power - Any Christian is where he is on the path - But the destination is to be as much like Him as we can... That is how we draw in... come close... I am not saying that a change has not taken place in any Christian... WAY above my pay grade. But the distractions of Alter-christ certainly limit oneself from going as far down the path as one could - And preaching Alter-christ limits others... because the fullness of the truth is not found.
Let me ask this...When you violate any aspect of the Torah, and everyone does, where do you go for the required atonement???
The same place you do : )
ping
An interesting tightening of the shot group. That is meant in a good way. I have to ask the following question and it is not intended as a trap.
Upon rapture of the church will those asleep who heard and responded to Peters call to salvation be translated with those who responded to Paul’s call to salvation?
Are the kingdom responders of Peter and the 11 treated as those under the old covenant?
Finally did Cornelius respond to Grace or Peter’s call to baptismal regeneration?
I ask these questions because I have reached a point where the logic of two systems within one body of believers at the same exact point in history does not measure up. To me “worlds collide” apparently in Acts 15 and all departed brothers and agreed on the Gospel.
As one who has studied dispensationalism for a few years, I note there are clear distinctions which usher in a new. The Fall, the Flood, Abraham, Mosaic, Messiah death, burial and resurrection then ushering in His church at Pentecost, Rapture ushering in Trib etc. By dividing the church into two dispensations seems to laymen me as illogical based on claims of that Paul was sole owner of the Gospel of Grace and inferring Paul was the only apostle to realize or communicate the mystery. Acts 15 to me tells it all. The gospel was for Jew and Gentile.
Thank you again for your previous post.
*shrugs* How does keeping Christmas inform you more than the mere knowledge thereof? The 'reason for the season' and all that? Can you imagine the same sort of excitement and joy for Sukkot without experiencing it? I think not... It is weird and outside of your natural borders... strange to think about building a rustic shack and living in it for a week with the same anticipation as you no doubt have for Christmas... But Sukkot is the real birthday of Yeshua. And how one is supposed to celebrate that is all lined out in the Torah, and contained within the tradition of Judaism.
As to the impact, I will tell you at the end of this year, as this year I am determined to honor (DO) all the Holy Days, and will pointedly deny the Christian ones. I expect the difference will be profound.
But the knowledge alone is invaluable - Knowing the times and seasons means that day will not come upon you as a thief... (1Th 5:1-8)
God’s Grace is also spoken of in Acts 11:
Acts 11:19-23 NASB
So then those who were scattered because of the persecution that occurred in connection with Stephen made their way to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except to Jews alone. But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who came to Antioch and began speaking to the Greeks also, preaching the Lord Jesus. And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord. The news about them reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off to Antioch. Then when he arrived and witnessed the grace of God, he rejoiced and began to encourage them all with resolute heart to remain true to the Lord;
I will add Isaiah 53 is the very definition of God’s Grace:
Isaiah 53:1-12 NASB
Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the L ord been revealed? For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the L ord has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. But the L ord was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the L ord will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
I agree with your post completely. I just don’t see how repenting, something God leads us to is a work. It isn’t.
Just as always only God knows for sure. We do know that many Jews responded to Christ’s message and were called disciples until His sermon recorded in Matthew after which many of them left. Many were “added” at the sermon at Pentecost and we can only assume that because we are told that that they indeed were saved. It does say they received the Holy Spirit.
Keep in mind. That many became believers prior to Paul’s revelation of the “mystery” doesn’t detract from the fact that a “mystery” still hadn’t been revealed. Many today are saved not realizing the free gift they received. They may even have thought that it was they who did something. That isn’t the point.
The main point of understanding the “mystery” is to understand that salvation is a true gift not dependent on man’s actions. Once people understand that there is a deeper understanding of how God will deal with people after the rapture. Once again it will be actions that count. That is clear from the command to “not take the mark of the beast”. Salvation is no longer a free gift but requires people to take action and “persevere”.
Understanding the “mystery” that salvation is a free gift and entirely the work of the Holy Spirit within us we are relieved of the guilt that Satan tries to plant in our minds. He can no longer plant that doubt because I can say that the Holy Spirit within me is my guarantee or seal that I belong to God no matter what I do. Not to say I want to do wrong because the Holy Spirit is now my conscience if you will but the guilt is gone because it’s not something I have to other then have faith in the shed blood if Jesus and that I am secure in Christ. He chose me, I didn’t choose him.
Many people are saved who never understood the “mystery”. For one, I don’t think they had the peace of mind we do in the security of salvation and two, they never understood the prophesy of the coming tribulation.
I pray that helps explain. The Old Testament saints never had that assurance and neither will those during the tribulation.
As far as Isaiah 53, WHO was he referring to when he talked of "all we like sheep", "for the transgression of MY PEOPLE was he stricken", etc. Verse 1 tells you: ZION. Jerusalem, ISRAEL. Yes, the gentiles will also be benefactors of Isa. but it will be THROUGH ISRAEL, God's kingdom of priests and a blessing to all nations, during the Millenial reign of Christ that this will happen. RIght now is different, as we are seeing. The grace of God, the body of Christ, etc. til the fullness of the Gentiles be brought in.
1 Corinthians 15:1-11 NASB
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
"Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."
Please read Isaiah 53. All of it. I posted it fully. Here is the heart of the Gospel according to Isaiah:
Isaiah 53:5-7 NASB
But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the L ord has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
If Philip did not point out the shed Blood of Christ as the mercy for us, then I am at a loss for words. What scriptures did Paul use to convince the Bereans? What did they search diligently? An epistle from Paul?
I am a very patient man. However it is clear you have not read fully any of my posts. If you would like further discussions on this topic then please read more than the posts you agree with. I have answered the Pentecost sermon several times. Peter preaches the same Gospel as evidenced in 1 Corinthians 15 and Paul says right there that they all...all of them do to.
If you now want to refute Paul’s own words please proceed.
Very interesting. Will you give this Gentile a full report on your observances?
Do I get constructive credit by living under the Middle East skies in less than a rustic shack over my military career?:)
Does this apply to you???
”Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luk 3:10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
Luk 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Luk 3:12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
Luk 3:13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
Peter didn't know about the grace that was revealed to Paul...Paul didn't even know it for some time...And it was not taught at the beginning...
Doing works for repentance was prevalent...One couple was struck down dead because they with held information about some property...Another guy was told to sell everything that he had and give the money away...That doesn't happen under the gospel of grace by faith without works...
That is exactly as I understand it...
I don’t see this correlating with Acts 2. Pentecost is after the Finished Work of Christ.
John was calling Jews to repentance and cleansing for the coming Messiah. As would Jews do under the old covenant. Aaron and his sons washed before bringing forth the sin offering. That was a shadow of what John is doing by baptizing those who repent. They would be prepared for the sin offering which of course was Jesus Christ.
That was excellent!
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