Posted on 11/21/2013 11:02:12 AM PST by redleghunter
Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.
(Excerpt) Read more at gty.org ...
"Of this man's seed hath God according to HIS PROMISE raised UNTO ISRAEL a Saviour, Jesus:" (Acts13:23); "When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to ALL THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL" (Acts 13:24).
And that does not include all the "Jews", "men of Judea" "all ye that dwell at Jerusalem", "Ye men of Israel", "you of the patriarch of David", "all the house of Israel", etc.
But like I said, show me where Peter preached to these people the gospel of the grace of God before Paul was saved and given that message.
“1 John provides for assurance that one has eternal life based on characteristic attributes of a believer. And by which evidence Paul knew the Thessalonians were elect, (1Ths. 1) as they manifested “things which accompany salvation.” In contrast, due to the lack of such testimony, and impenitence from things contrary to faith, Paul stood in doubt of such Corinthians.”
I would add though that the emphasis is on the quality of the faith which produces works, and can never be on the quantity of the works, or even on the quantity of sins. Paul was a good example of this himself when he attested in Romans 7 to the sin committed by his flesh, and the war between the flesh and his spiritual mind. Suppose some holy roller got around to Paul and used that as evidence that Paul was not showing the fruits of the spirit? Yet, Paul himself was the very definition of the Elect, literally plucked by Christ off the road to Damascus as we all are by His Spirit. So the quantity of works must not be focused on, but on the quality of the faith which despairs over itself and trusts in the righteousness of Christ.
I’ll also add that it has been my experience that some of the “holiest” sounding people, and the biggest legalists mind you, have also been the worst secret reprobates, destined to be swallowed up by hell. The devil often represents himself as an angel of light for to deceive the faithful.
That's puts things in the perspective where everything makes sense...One is physical, the other spiritual...
Doesn’t it all make perfect sense? God is not the author of confusion. He had a purpose for the earth that was quite distinct from His purpose concerning the heaven. His purpose concerning the earth and Christ’s reign upon it is the subject of PROPHECY (2 Pet. 1:16-19). His purpose concerning the heaven and our exaltation there with Christ is the subject of “THE MYSTERY”. (Eph. 2:4-10; 3:1-11). He does nothing by chance. EVERYTHING is for a reason. AND He gives us the reason in His Word.
I think you are putting too much stock in the “my gospel” reference. Paul declares the Gospel comes from Christ. He then goes on to discuss the Gospel is for Jew and Greek, circumcision and uncircumcised. The Jerusalem council shows the unity of the Body of Christ. Peter testified at that council the Gospel of the Jew was the same as Gentile. One gospel one Holy Spirit.
The epistles as you ordered them are not in chronological order. They were written for living human beings in the first century and they all apply to us today and the days to come. They are all addressed to brethren and believers. The Gospels all four are for all believers as well. As saved by Grace Blood bought Christians we are Kingdom citizens awaiting the return of the King to translate us to Him. We do well to live as Kingdom citizens.
Believe me when I say dispensationalism makes the most sense out of all the eschatological theories. That is what it is a theory. When Darby, Schoefield, Walvoord and Ryrie say rightly dividing the word they did not mean the Gospel according to Jesus Christ. I know some of their students have taken those steps and it’s done in error. I clearly understand: Israel is Israel, church is church, and kingdom is kingdom.
We do not base our doctrine of salvation on one or two verses like others. Saved by Grace through faith is the conclusive thrust of the NT.
Taking the 70 weeks of Daniel and allowing eschatology to influence Soteriology in this age and the next is error in my opinion.
"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL." (Rom. 2:16). Just how much stock do you think should be afforded to that?
The heaven/The Mystery/the body of believers/Spiritual.
The earth/Prophecy/a kingdom of believers/Physical.
But I'm sure you already knew this :)
I think we are being too defensive on JMs presentation of this material. We are bought by the Blood of Christ. When we confess with our mouth we say Jesus is LORD. That means something to me. It means He is LORD and my main desire is to obey Him. He tells us in His Word what He wants His disciples to do, and we do it. The doing is not counted as works for salvation, they are what we do as bond servants.
I guess the hymn trust and obey best explains it.
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Faith and works...
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Keeping the law is righteousness...
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
We are now, here, going into a transition from a physical circumcision to a spiritual circumcision...
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Faith without works...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
The church was under faith AND the Jewish law for righteousness...Jesus fulfilled the law for believers in him and transitions into faith only...
These two contradictory verses have to be reconciled
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
John the baptist baptized with water...Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost...That was a mystery up until it was revealed to Paul by the Risen Savior...
Rom_16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Eph_3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph_5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
There were incidents of the Holy Spirit landing on people prior to that but the indwelling of the Spirit wasn't revealed until Paul...
After the Holy Spirit leaves with the church in the Rapture, Jesus takes up where he left off in the Gospels prior to the giving of the Holy Spirit offering the physical Kingdom of Heaven for his original chosen people...
When the Kingdom is established in the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth it will consist of all His Blood bought people. Israel and the “sheep” will consist of that Kingdom. There was is and will be only one plan of deliverance for ALL dispensations. And that is in the shed Blood of Jesus Christ.
It might help me understand which dispensational theologian you derive your theory. As I said I have studied Darby, Schoefield, Walvoord, Ryrie and others and they never come close to hinting there are two gospels. The closest I have seen is Tim LaHaye. He had some difficulty explaining the OT prophecies of Israel’s millennial temple offerings. That led many to claim he was advocating Israel would be saved by Mosaic law in the millennial Kingdom. He denies this of course and I believe him but he and others have difficulty explaining those OT references to the ‘re-institution of the offerings and literal calendar feast observances.
But not even LaHaye makes any claim of different gospels in the NT nor in the trib age. You can read all about that in both his nonfiction and fiction works.
It is certainly the Gospel of Grace. The good news was, is and ever shall be Jesus Christ crucified, died, shed His Blood, rose from the dead three days later for the remission of sins and is now seated at the Right Hand of the Father. Jesus did not have to list that out for them in His command because they all witnessed it first hand.
We have to remember we can derive much from Acts but it is a historical book more than it is a doctrinal work. We see how people are saved in action, Faith as dynamic in Acts. We are given facts that those who believed were then filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized. In many cases all three happened simultaneously as we see in Acts 2. We see it sequentially in Acts 10. All same message. It is in Romans and other epistles where we get the doctrine of salvation. Paul goes into great detail to layout what goes on in the heart, mind and soul of a believer when they are born again. I might add I believe Peter is the only apostle to use the term born again in an epistle. In Acts we see what it means in action to be born again.
I believe it is all there in the portico of Solomon sermon give by Peter in Acts 3. Will address more tomorrow when not on a tablet.
But you mentioned repentance as preached by Peter but Paul did too:
2 Corinthians 7:10 NKJV
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
This is what I meant by not taking the “my gospel” statement as it belongs to Paul only:
Galatians 1:11-12 NKJV
But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Who is arguing a Faith and works salvation? I am not the one advocating two gospels. There is only one Gospel. Jews and Gentiles back then as today are saved by the shed Blood of Christ by Grace through faith. That was my point.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was happening while Paul was persecuting the church. The references you gave was Paul explaining the mystery of what already happened and was happening and continues to happen.
I guess I have the same question. How are people saved after the rapture? Please also provide the verses which refer to the departure of the Holy Spirit during the tribulation.
The Lord knows them that are His, and we shall know them by their fruit, quality-wise and overall characteristic. One of which is repentance when convicted of their sin, (1Jn. 18-10) as David exampled.
I’ll also add that it has been my experience that some of the “holiest” sounding people, and the biggest legalists mind you, have also been the worst secret reprobates, destined to be swallowed up by hell.
That is a given, nonetheless, it is by fruit that salvific faith is know and judged by, (Rv, 2,3) and he that is spiritual judgeth all things. (1 Corinthians 2:15)
Thank you.
We humans spend too much time focusing on the external and not the internal.
A lot of what needs to be considered is where a person starts out from.
The saved drug dealer after several years may not be at the point of the church raised convert after a week of being saved in the external works department, but will have made far more progress internally, in the heart.
One just has more baggage to deal with.
Thank you.....
Of course they are to the Jews, but which is not a different gospel than to the Gentiles, but of salvation by faith, a faith which is (normally) confessed in baptism.
The error of the Judaizers was in keeping the whole law and as if this system of merit saved them, plus belief in the Lord Jesus, versus being justified by faith in Him to save on His expense and righteousness, but which faith is manifest in following Him, (Jn. 10:27,28) constituting the "obedience of faith" which works towards practically fulfilling the holy intent of the Law. (Acts 8:4) And which faith God blesses in grace. (Heb. 10:35)
Not only that, baptism for the remission of sins is preached, repentance unto salvation is preached. Everything is preached unto these people except ONE THING: the salvation by grace through faith. Not ONCE do we read that Christ DIED for our sins, was buried, and rose the third day, mentioned.
That is simply erroneous and you have not understood what i wrote. There is not two gospels, but one in which, as Paul stated, was that of
Testifying both to the Jews , and also to the Greeks , repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)
...shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem , and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles , that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)
Both Jews and Gentiles are called to repentant faith, as repentance and faith go together, two sides of the same coin, for you cannot believe on the Lord Jesus who died for our sins without it effecting obedience to them. In Acts 2:14-40 Peter explicitly preached that
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:21) going on to explain how the death, burial and resurrection of the sinless Lord Jesus was a fulfillment of prophecy, like as he told the Gentiles,
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43; cf. Joel 2:32)
Having convicted them of sin (they killed their righteousness Savior), and of righteousness (God raised Him up because He was) , and of judgment (that the Lord Jesus was going to make them His footstool), they cried out asking how they could be saved. And Peter's reply is a call to repentant faith, which is confessed in baptism.
You can object that this is calling man to do a work, to make a response, but unless you believe souls are saved in their sleep, then you do the same in calling them to respond to the gospel. Peter here was simply telling them to call upon the Lord Jesus, as he had prior said they would be saved by, by confessing Him in baptism.
And which again is consistent with Paul,
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:10)
As said, there is no real difference btwn moving your tongue in confessing the risen Lord and Savior, versus confessing that in body language. Even moving neurons in your brain in believing is a response man chooses to do so by grace, without which he could not and would not. (But election is made before man can do anything: Rm. 11:16) Certainly souls are not converted while comatose, but when they believe.
If some asks me what they must do to be saved, i can tell them to That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9) But telling them to be baptized in His name, if understood as being a proper confession of the Lord Jesus (not that the act saves them) then i am doing the same thing. That is their "altar call " or salvation.
Thus Paul baptized as being synonymous with believing.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:4-5)
This was done as part of fulfilling the Great Commission which was for the whole world.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)
While it is repentant faith in the heart that is imputed unto righteousness, even before it is manifestly confessed, yet the time of this confession can be the time when they first truly believe, which faith God grants to helpless man, and which faith He blesses. Conversely, some souls were never saved because they would not heed the altar call for salvation.
And as saving faith is a repentant faith, thus as said, Paul stated
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13)
Not because their holy works in fulfilling the righteous intent of the law earn them salvation, but because this is evidence of faith in the Lord Jesus, the faith which justifies.
Therefore Scripture is consistent with itself as concerns the gospel of grace, as there is not two gospels, which would render Peter being accused, (Gal. 1:6-9) but both Peter and Paul preached the same gospel, both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)
And so must we.
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