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To: agere_contra
Paul's words cannot be taken to mean that Mary had sinned, anymore than they can be taken to mean that Jesus had sinned.

Please note, I say this with kindness. You are making quite a bold statement on what is not CERTAIN. We are CERTAIN Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ) was born without sin and never sinned. We know because it is clear in Scriptures. So please take out that "comparison" right now. Right there in Luke 1 we are told the Child is Holy.

We do not have evidence and therefore cannot come to a CERTAIN conclusion Mary was without sin. We DO have Scriptural evidence of sinful man gaining sinlessness in the presence of God and His Holiness:

Isaiah 6:

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Did this happen with Mary? We don't know. We don't know what EXACTLY happened when "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

We don't know for SURE. There is not enough here in Luke 1 to form a theology of veneration, worship etc. That's all I am saying.

113 posted on 11/20/2013 12:54:01 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter; agere_contra; metmom
Jesus was the only one scripture says was without sin.

Acts 4:14 Jesus the Son of God, let us hold onto [our] confessing of [him]. 15 For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

On the other hand, Mary went through childbirth as any other mother does which is a consequence of sin. She also had to be cleansed after Jesus birth.

Leviticus 12:7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.

Notice that one of the birds was for a sin offering.

Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

There would have been no need for a sin offering if she had been sinless.

120 posted on 11/20/2013 3:24:19 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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