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To: boatbums; redleghunter
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away,to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. -- Hebrews 6:4-6

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. -- Hebrews 10:26-31

In context, the "deliberate sin" he's talking about is apostasy (return to Judaism) motivated by cowardice. But the point stands that it's possible to fall away.

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. -- 1 Cor 10:12

(All citations from the NKJV.)

139 posted on 11/19/2013 8:12:55 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion; smvoice; All

“In context, the “deliberate sin” he’s talking about is apostasy (return to Judaism) motivated by cowardice. But the point stands that it’s possible to fall away.”


It is not possible for the Elect to fall away, as is quite clear in scripture, though the reprobate can certainly fall away. As Augustine explains:

“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)

Hebrews 6 most likely deals with men like Judas, who was filled with the Spirit, and even performed miracles along with the rest of the Apostles (Matt 10:1-8), and yet was always accounted a devil and a thief (John 6:70, 12:6). There are men during the Apostolic age who performed miracles by the power of the Holy Ghost, and yet had no saving grace, and therefore were ultimately unknown to the true church of God.

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
(Mat 7:22-23)

Compare to Christ’s words to the SHeep of God, who are always known by God:

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
(Joh 10:27-28)

And again, all those who apostasize from the faith, were never of us from the beginning:

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


147 posted on 11/19/2013 8:35:50 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Campion

Important to put in context (below). Clearly a reference to the parable of the soils. Notice well what is written after the verses you provided:

Hebrews 6:4-20 NASB

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you .”

And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.


191 posted on 11/19/2013 10:50:48 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: Campion
By your interpretation of those verses, you will have to admit that once someone turns away, there is no coming back. Should they ever want to, they cannot be renewed again to repentance, they cannot re-crucify Christ, there is NO LONGER a sacrifice for their sins and hell is where they will go no matter how earnest their remorse is. You sure that's how you want to play that?
193 posted on 11/19/2013 11:02:44 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Campion; boatbums; redleghunter

>> “In context, the “deliberate sin” he’s talking about is apostasy (return to Judaism) motivated by cowardice.” <<

.
Wow what a concoction!

Deliberate sin is any sin done deliberately, like praying to the dead, or trying to eat your salvation rather than believing in Yeshua, or bowing and crossing yourself in front of an idol, or buying indulgences, or praying with beads to count vain repetitions, or kissing the ring of Pontifus Maximus, or collecting art treasures in a giant sepulcher and calling it a cathedral, or basilica, or...


264 posted on 11/20/2013 8:22:20 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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