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To: faithhopecharity; piusv
But the idea that the RC Church should shut itself up and not share anything with anybody else on planet earth is ludicrous and does not hold up too well when we examine the real history.

Don't you see? What "history" are you referring to? The Catholic Church has already shut itself up since VCII. The Church no longer proclaims, Christ, the Sovereign King, to all nations; nor does it preach, "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus".

31 posted on 11/13/2013 5:35:36 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

before we can agree on “no salvation outside the church” we would need to discuss what constitutes the church?

is the church the hierarchy (as could be derived from how the RC tradition views “on this rock I found my church...,” albeit we have to acknowledge this as a point of debate)

or,
is the church all the faithful? just alive on earth today or those in heaven or purgatory too? and what of the (Jewish) faithful? Saint Gregory said: “”Sancti ante legem, sancti sub lege, sancti sub gratiâ, omnes hi . . . in membris Ecclesiæ sunt constituti” that is, the church includes those saints or believers before the law was given, those saints or believers under the law, and those saints or believers under grace...

That discourse could continue quite awhile.
The point I am struggling to make is,
that
CHURCH is often seen as something beyond, far broader than, the hierarchy or its authority alone.

Now then, you could argue that view as being more akin to Protestantism and Judaism, in that it puts the focus on the individuals (parishioners, believers, members, whatnot), rather than on any priesthood or hierarchy alone.

However we may view it, though, it is also a viewpoint attested within the RC faith tradition (along with, yes, the viewpoint emphasizing the clerical authority structure).

Neither viewpoint is foreign to Catholicism. I believe both are worthy of consideration, and perhaps also clarification as may be helpful, when we use the term, ‘CHURCH’?.

All my best,
fhc


34 posted on 11/13/2013 5:47:55 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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