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To: redleghunter

There are many. Some can be debated whether the parallel is coincidental, but these are my favorites:

Sirach 51 is quoted by Mt 11:28-30
Tobit 12:15 is confirmed by Rev 8:2
Sirach 27:6 is referenced by Judith 11:19
1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.
1 Peter 1:6-7 “as gold tested by fire” is taken from Wisdom 3:6
James 2:23 “it was reckoned to him as righteousness” quotes 1 Macc 2:53
Heb 11:35 refers to the historical events of 2 Macc 7
Heb 11:5 tells us the fate of Enoch, recorded in Sir 44:16, beyond what is known from Gen 5:24
Eph 6:14 uses identical imagery from Wisdom 5:18
Romans 1:20 would be baseless speculation if not for Wis 13:1
Mary’s utterance in Luke 1:52 is from Sir 10:14
Herod’s decree in 2:16 is prophecies in Wisdom 11:7
Wisdom 2:16 is the only place in the Old Testament wherein it is foretold that the Messiah will call God his Father.
John 10:22 depicts Jesus celebrating the Feast of the Dedication, set forth in 1 Macc 4:59
Further, Jesus self-identifies with the Temple, on this feast, comparing his own dedication to his father with the Temple’s dedication in 1 Macc 4:36


67 posted on 10/28/2013 9:46:16 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

I’ll take the first one Sirach 51. Matthew 11:28-30 is not a quote at all. In three verses you have key words of “yoke” and “rest.” The context of Sirach is discipline. The context of Matthew is hope.

The rest I will address tomorrow.


69 posted on 10/28/2013 10:08:10 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: dangus
Remember, the claim in the original post was the Apocrypha CITED in the NT. None of the below references are cited (quoted) from the Apocrypha.

Sirach 51 is quoted by Mt 11:28-30: As mentioned before this is not a citation from Sirach 51:

There are “key words” but not a quote. Using the same approach of key words would bring us to several passages in Jeremiah (Matthew 11:28 : Jer 31:25; John 7:37; Matthew 11:29 : John 13:15; Eph 4:20; Phil 2:5; 1 Pet 2:21; 1 John 2:6; Matthew 11:29 : Jer 6:16; Matthew 11:30 : 1 John 5:3). I will note this is a beautiful prayer.

Tobit 12:15 is confirmed by Rev 8:2:

This does match with the number being 7. It is not a citation. Also found in Tobit is an angel who instructs to catch a fish pull its guts out and burn the guts to ward off the devil. We see angelic visitations throughout the OT and NT. Each time they are delivering the direct Words of God. The angel visiting in Tobit seems to interact in daily living and delivering guidance that is not directly quoted from God. In Chapter 12 all assembled laid prostrate before the angel. Angels in Daniel and other places tell the human not to bow or kneel before them. This angel seems to accept the worship and honor of those assembled in Tobit. The angel also says he is delivering secrets. Alarms are going off…spider senses tingling.

Sirach 27:6 is referenced by Judith 11:19:

Using Apocrypha to validate Apocrypha? Again my statement was where in the NT is the Apocrypha CITED.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds:

Again, there are several non-Apocrypha OT and NT sources for this (Psalm 62:12 : Job 34:11; Ps 28:4; Jer 17:10; Matt 16:27; Rom 2:6; 1 Cor 3:8; Rev 2:23)

1 Peter 1:6-7 “as gold tested by fire” is taken from Wisdom 3:6:

Again found in other places. Most notably Proverbs 17:3

James 2:23 “it was reckoned to him as righteousness” quotes 1 Macc 2:53:

Truly??? How about Genesis 15.

Heb 11:35 refers to the historical events of 2 Macc 7:

The historical events refer to 1 Kin 17:23; 2 Kin 4:36f

Heb 11:5 tells us the fate of Enoch, recorded in Sir 44:16, beyond what is known from Gen 5:24:

Hebrews 11 does not mention “beyond what is known from Genesis 5:24.” Hebrews 11 stays within the confines of the information of Genesis 5. Maybe the Vatican should add the Book of Enoch to their canon if they want to add more information on Enoch. The Hebrews reference does not cite Sirach.

Eph 6:14 uses identical imagery from Wisdom 5:18:

So does Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 59.

Romans 1:20 would be baseless speculation if not for Wis 13:1:

Incorrect statement. Refer to Job 12:7-9; Ps 19:1-6; Jer 5:21f; Isaiah 45; Genesis 1&2.

Mary’s utterance in Luke 1:52 is from Sir 10:14:

Again, not a citation. However closest to exact words is Job 5:11 and Proverbs 29:23. Several other Proverbs repeat this theme of bringing the prideful low and low are lifted.

Herod’s decree in MT 2:16 is prophecies in Wisdom 11:7:

No way. Wisdom 11:7 gives no indication of prophecy. It is so nebulous. But Matthew does tell us where the prophecy comes from…Jer. 31:15.

Wisdom 2:16 is the only place in the Old Testament wherein it is foretold that the Messiah will call God his Father.

Woe. You need to read all of Wisdom 2 (context is way off). However your statement is incorrect. Psalm 2:7 “He said to Me, You are my Son, Today I have begotten You.” And Psalm 89:26

John 10:22 depicts Jesus celebrating the Feast of the Dedication, set forth in 1 Macc 4:59: Maccabees is good history. So is Josephus. Your apologetics site missed a very important point…Maccabees is good historical context for the fulfillment of several of Daniel’s prophecies. So is Josephus. Good history but not Scriptures. The fulfillment of the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24 is not in NT Scriptures. But we know from secular history that the Temple was destroyed just as Jesus prophesied. Josephus records this. Again good history but not Scriptures.

Further, Jesus self-identifies with the Temple, on this feast, comparing his own dedication to his father with the Temple’s dedication in 1 Macc 4:36: Maccabees is good history. So is Josephus. Your apologetics site missed a very important point…Maccabees is good historical context for the fulfillment of several of Daniel’s prophecies. So is Josephus. Good history but not Scriptures. The fulfillment of the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24 is not in NT Scriptures. But we know from secular history that the Temple was destroyed just as Jesus prophesied. Josephus records this. Again good history but not Scriptures.

Therefore, we see not one direct citation (quote) from the Apocrypha in the NT. The best case scenario is allusions. Those allusions do not stand on their own when compared to other non-Apocrypha OT references. Maccabees is good history and should be read to get a good understanding of intertestamental events.

82 posted on 10/29/2013 11:01:25 AM PDT by redleghunter
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