Posted on 10/22/2013 4:45:20 AM PDT by don-o
Uh, those are tribulation saints, those who have “endured to the end”. WE are not those people. WE are the Church the Body of Christ. He will come for us in the air, in the rapture, before the tribulation begins. We have our salvation secured IN THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. We have been promised by God to be kept from the wrath to come.
Need an adrenaline shot this morning or something?
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead
He DOES do that, but He will judge the evil and unsaved, Christians will not be here when He returns and THAT is most important
Christians will be judged according to their works for their reward, but not for their salvation
and;
" .. who has spoken through the prophets...
What prophet is so revered by Catholics, that prophet supercedes Mary ... or the fathers ... or the church ?
LOL! I know some other people who are going to go berserk one day soon. The wailing and gnashing will be unbearable. But bear it “they” must, after all, it IS for eternity.:)
I disagree. If you read the book of Revelation — all peoples that ever lived and might be living at that moment will be caught up in the General (Final) Judgment where the sheep will be separated from the goats.
All peoples! That means EVERYONE!
I disagree. If you read the book of Revelation — all peoples that ever lived and might be living at that moment will be caught up in the General (Final) Judgment where the sheep will be separated from the goats.
All peoples! That means EVERYONE!
Have you not read the Psalms and the Book of Isaiah — prophesying about the coming of Christ?
LOL! T'was not my intention.
It is disrespectful and arrogant to reply to a reference to Athanasius the Great with "please pass the cornbread."
Have pity on yourself. Stop maligning those who refuted heresy and preserved the faith.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Which speaks of the dead being judged ... not the living ... and THAT is the promise of the gospel.
Whosever believeth in him should not perish but have (lineal, posessive verb) everlasting life.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
“...tribulation saints??? your opinion ...”
Clearly in the 300’s St. Augustine did not regard them as tribulation saints, whatever that might be...”
It says what is says and the Church’s doctrines and creeds are all backed up by scripture.
“...he will judge the evil and unsaved...”
Not according to 2 Corinthians 5:10:
For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body. according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil.
Rev 20 is concerning the dead.
"For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body. according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil
Which says something entirely different from KJV
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
We'd probably be all day discussing "of the body" and "In the body" ... and I have to go cut some firewood ...
In my best Swartzenegger .. "Ahll be back"
Looking at that - I think the intent is to put words into the mouth of Blessed St Augustine.
Disrespectful and arrogant way to deal with a Holy Father of the Church. But it’s how some folks roll.
hmmm, so unless one says “for our sins” they are not saved.
very interesting.....apparently Philip was unaware of this requirement since the eunuch professed in Acts 8:37 “ i believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God”. after that profession of faith, he was baptized for the remission of his sins.
now, the NC contains a statement right out of the eunuch’s profession in Acts 8:
we believe in One Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God.
of course, all Nicene Christians know what “ for OUR sake” and “for us and for OUR salvation” means.
question for smvoice: was the enuch in Acts 8 saved?
Glory to God in the highest. And on earth peace to men of good will. We praise You. We bless You. We adore you. We glorify You. We give You thanks for Your great glory. O Lord God, heavenly King, God the Father almighty. O Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son. O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father: you Who take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. You Who take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer. You Who sit at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us. For you alone are holy. You alone are the Lord. You alone, O Jesus Christ, are most high. Together with the Holy Spirit in the glory of God the Father. Amen.
for those ignorant of the Christian Faith or for those who wish to deceive by implying the historical Christian Faith doesn’t believe Jesus died for our sins, i have posted the “Gloria” which is prayed by the faithful every week. This is the faith of Paul and Augustine.
Prayer of Saint Ephraim
O Lord and Master of my life,
Grant not unto me a spirit of idleness,
of discouragement,
of lust for power,
and of vain speaking.
But bestow upon me, Thy servant,
the spirit of chastity,
of meekness,
of patience,
and of love.
Yea, O Lord and King,
grant that I may perceive
my own transgressions,
and judge not my brother,
for blessed art Thou
unto ages of ages.
Amen.
" ... but thence gathered and reduced into one, that the memory of slow persons might not be distressed; that every person may be able to say, able to hold, what he believes....
You tell ME what that means.
What was the eunuch reading from when Philip ran to him? He was reading from Isaiah. Isaiah 53 to be exact. What does he say? Is Christ not portrayed here as bearing the sins of the world? Read it carefully. "All WE like sheep have gone astray...and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of US all."(v.6). Since the prophet says "all we", anyone who is a thoughtful student of Scripture will naturally ask, "all who?" And that student will find in verse 8 that Isaiah speakes as a Hebrew prophet concerning HIS OWN PEOPLE: "For the transgression of MY PEOPLE was He stricken."
So, first of all, the prophet is speaking here of Messiah's death only as it relates to the nation Israel.
It is true, OF COURSE, that WE Gentiles have ALSO gone astray and that the Lord HAS ALSO laid our iniquities upon Christ, but that is not the question here, in Isaiah, which the eunuch was reading.
The TONE of Isaiah 53 is another factor to be looked at. Isaiah does NOT proclaim the death of Christ as GOOD NEWS, or OFFER SALVATION THROUGH ITS MERITS, as WE DO TODAY. On the contrary, he begins with a tone of disappointment. (WHo will believe his report? A tender plant...a root out of dry ground..no form or comeliness..no beauty that we should despise Him...despised...rejected..a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.). Such a man as Isaiah describes, who would do homage to him?
BUT, continues the prophet, He is bearing OUR sins. WE are the guilty one, yet He goes as a lamb to the slaughter.
NOTE, in ALL of Isaiah's prediction there is NOTHING about TRUSTING IN THE MERITS of CHRIST (the Crucified) FOR SALVATION. There is SUBSTITUTION, but substitution in itself is not GOOD NEWS. Many innocent victims have unjustly born the penalties for the crimes of another. Is that something to be rejoiced in or boasted about?
Isaiah is pointing out, prophecying, that when Messiah comes He will be rejected and slain, taking the blame for Israel's sins, but this is still DIFFERENT from proclaiming the merit of Christ's death in an offer of salvation to be accepted by faith.
But WHAT does that have to do with the eunuch in Acts 8, you say?
Everything. Where was the eunuch when he was reading Isaiah? In Jerusalem. He had come to Jerusalem to worship. He was coming THROUGH Israel to find God. And what did he do upon hearing Philip? He was baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. He was under the Kingdom commission of Peter and the 11. The Kingdom gospel. Where believing that Christ is Messiah, baptism for the remission of sins, and going through Israel is required for salvation. We are under the gospel of the grace of God, which was not given until the salvation of Paul, Acts 9. Where we are told that Christ died FOR OUR SINS, was buried, and rose again the third day. FOR OUR SINS. Not made known until given to Paul by direct revelations of Jesus Christ.
Have a hard time believing that? Read Peter's great Pentecost message. And show me which verse says that Christ died FOR OUR SINS. His message is NOT one of the good news of the cross. He is BLAMING Israel for Christ's death.
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