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To: boatbums
Sorry, I get a bit overly sensitive to the terms 'saved' and 'born again'. I believe it is intentionally ambiguous (as is the kingdom) because God wants us to come to Him with it instead of arguing on some online forum.

My opinion on 'saved' is that it is something that technically won't happen until after I die. It's not something that I have to convince myself of while I am alive. As long as my relationship with the Father grows deeper, my assurance rests with Him because of who He reveals Himself to be in my life. If I truly relate with him as 'Father' and son, then I have no fear about where I stand.

Fear is the root of all sin. I want to get to a place where fear is permanently cut out of me forever. Needless to say, I have a long long long way to go.

459 posted on 10/21/2013 9:42:32 PM PDT by Hoodat (BENGHAZI - 4 KILLED, 2 MIA)
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To: Hoodat
My opinion on 'saved' is that it is something that technically won't happen until after I die. It's not something that I have to convince myself of while I am alive. As long as my relationship with the Father grows deeper, my assurance rests with Him because of who He reveals Himself to be in my life. If I truly relate with him as 'Father' and son, then I have no fear about where I stand.

Though I agree the term "born again" has been perverted and misused, I still believe it expressed an extremely essential point in why Christ came in the first place. He certainly didn't come here to "show us the way to live" - though we should strive to be more like Jesus every day. He didn't even come to demonstrate how we can live perfect, holy lives in order to please God - though we are called to "be holy as I am holy". His primary purpose was as the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world. He was the fulfillment of the Passover lamb, the blood of bulls and goats placed on the Mercy Seat on every Day of Atonement and in all feast days and sacrifices and offerings given to the Jews for signs of future completion.

Being "saved", "born again", "born from above", being sanctified, justified, made righteous, made holy - are all terms that signify both a state and a status, or condition. We were born into this world ALREADY at enmity with God. We inherited a sin nature and nobody has to teach us to sin - we figure it out pretty early all by ourselves. In Ephesians 2, Paul pretty much spreads it out for us:

    As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

    For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands) — remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

    For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

    Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

So, when we have received Jesus Christ as Savior, believing on Him to save us from our sins, we are ALREADY positionally seated with Him in heaven, even though we still inhabit our human flesh here on earth. Our "state" is being the redeemed, blood-bought children of God because we WERE born again into His family by faith. Instead of seeing being saved as a "not-until-I-die" kinda thing, God wants us to understand that we ARE, right now, saved. When we die, we WILL be with Him in heaven because we have been born again of "incorruptible seed".

If you are His, your relationship will continue to grow deeper and stronger because it is Christ IN you, the hope of glory. There was a "mystery" Paul said that was revealed to him by Christ - it was something that Jesus did not mention in His earthly ministry which WAS about the Kingdom of God. This mystery, Paul said was that:

    I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness — the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.

We do not need to fear, because Christ IS in us and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption - when we go to dwell with Him for eternity in heaven. This is an assurance that we can know RIGHT NOW. He wouldn't have said that if it's an uncertainty or something we cannot know until we die. As Paul says in Romans 8:15,

    The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Hope you have a good night!

464 posted on 10/21/2013 10:50:31 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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