[RBStealth]

What do you think about the Pope[s] not definitively following the request of Our Lady, that Russia be consecrated?

The way this is framed to me is that you dont believe the consecration was performed properly. Unless, of course your a news reporter posing a theoretical....However, your no news reporter and this is no interview.

To be more open to you, I think with the mind of the church. Pope JPII and the Vatican and the Magisterium teaches this was done. I think with the mind of the Church or I think that the Church is gravely mistaken or liars. ...I think with the mind of the Church. The consecration was done, its a mere fact.

I'm not looking for debate on this topic but I have a small bit to add:

People say the consecration was not done because of their sense of what 'converted' or 'conversion' means(as in Russia will be converted).

Some people have a preconceived definitive version of conversion in their head that is inviolate. This extends to what they hope to see in a converted Russia, and if they dont see that then Russia hasn't converted, therefore there was no valid consecration.

Fatima occured in 1917. NewAdvent.org has a Catholic Encyclopedia from 1917 listed on its webpage.

Catholic Encyclopedia 1917 "Conversion": http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04347a.htm

The BVM talked of the spreading of the errors of Russia, from these(Communism,Atheism) Russia has been converted and they are on a journey toward the Lord. It is my belief that currently Russia is a more Christian country than the U.S. We the U.S. have been exporting our errors around the world since the 60's,70's: abortion, population control(sterilizaiton, contraception, abortion), anti-humanism, atheism. These are accomplished in tandem with the World Bank, the U.N. and the E.U. Is Russia more sinful today than the U.S....I dont think so! Russia has been getting better, we are getting worse.

Some people also have an incomplete understanding of either consecration or the understanding of silent prayer and its efficiacy is no less than verbal prayer or a verbal consecration.

"Consecrate" is another word in this 1917 Catholic Encyc. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04276a.htm

[RBStealth]

Consecration is not a sacrament.
A sacrament requires form, matter and intention.

Many liberal priests/Catholics ignore the form part(the operative words) of a sacrament, change the words, dont fulfill all the requirements but have the intention. This is flawed.

However, a consecration is not a sacrament. People criticize the Consecration of Russia because of its form(the operative words). Even though the matter and intention are 100% there. The form(operative words) is not flawed, silent prayer, silent consecration is valid.

[HoosierDammit]

Good stuff. I’m with you, RB - Bl. JPII loved the Our Lady and loathed Communism in equally strong measure, so I doubt he would willfully disregard the intentions of Her instruction. BXVI’s agreement in the matter is just icing on the cake.

Blessed John Paul II, pray for us!

[Oratam]

"The BVM talked of the spreading of the errors of Russia, from these (Communism, Atheism) Russia has been converted and they are on a journey toward the Lord. It is my belief that currently Russia is a more Christian country than the U.S. We the U.S. have been exporting our errors around the world since the 60's,70's. . . ."

Evil fled the Kremlin and took up housekeeping in New York and Hollywood, the twin propaganda capitals, and in Chicago where the flame was kept burning and DC where the Constitution has been set alight.